It's Haye vs Valuev now

[Attraction]

VERY winnable fight for Haye



*** DAVID HAYE SIGNS CONTRACT TO CHALLENGE WBA HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION NIKOLAI VALUEV ON NOVEMBER 7 ***

Former undisputed world cruiserweight champion David ‘The Hayemaker’ Haye has signed a contract to meet current World Boxing Association (WBA) heavyweight champion Nikolai Valuev on November 7, at a location yet to be decided.

Expected to take place in Germany, ‘The Hayemaker’s scheduled 12-rounder with ‘The Beast From The East’ will pair the world’s most exciting heavyweight commodity with the world’s largest.

“I am thrilled to announce that my dream of becoming world heavyweight champion will be realised on November 7, when I challenge the tallest and heaviest champion of all time, Nikolai Valuev,” said Haye.

Standing at a whopping 7-feet-2-inches tall and weighing a similarly staggering 320-pounds (23 stone), Russian-born Valuev is the tallest and heaviest ever world boxing champion. He has yet to be floored or knocked out in his 16-year professional career.

Currently 50-1 (34 KO) as a pro, ‘The Beast From The East’ has proven his heavyweight credentials with wins over John Ruiz (twice), Evander Holyfield and Monte Barrett. The 35-year-old will be making the second defence of his second reign as WBA champion when he meets British hope Haye.

“Valuev’s known as ‘The Beast From The East’ and there’s a reason he’s got that nickname - he’s a big, ugly, sweaty and hairy man from the Eastern Bloc,” said Haye, who has weighed as low as 189-pounds (13st 7lbs) in his seven-year pro career and stands at a comparatively minute 6-feet-3-inches.

“Valuev is eight stone heavier than me and a foot taller than me. David only needed a slingshot and a stone to flatten Goliath, and I’m convinced my right hand generates more power than a stone.”

Having spent the best part of 2009 negotiating contracts with both Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko, Haye is eager to put the record straight on why he won’t be opposing one of the brothers in his next bout.

“There were reports in the German press that I had signed to fight Vitali Klitschko in September, but those reports were never true,” explained Haye.

“There have been long and exhausting discussions about the clash, but unfortunately I could never put my name to the fight contract the Klitschkos offered. The level of disrespect they have shown me throughout has left me feeling insulted.

“As for signing the contract, now that I realise just how much support and interest I have from the people in Germany, it would have been like selling my soul to the devil. I will not be a slave fighter.”

Despite the disappointment of the Klitschko bout falling through, Haye remains upbeat at the opportunity of knocking out Valuev and securing a future unification showdown with either brother.

“Once I have snatched Valuev’s title, I will be happy to battle out heavyweight supremacy with the Klitschkos, but only on equal and fair terms,” said Haye.

“As the WBA heavyweight champion, I should be able to meet them without having to sign my life away. Beating Valuev and taking his WBA title is my best chance of securing unification.

“I only hope the Klitschkos still want to fight me after I have slayed ‘The Beast’.”

Set to concede upwards of 110-pounds (8st) in weight on November 7, Haye is a former WBC, WBA and WBO cruiserweight (200-pounds or 14st 4lbs) champion who thrives on the task in hand. Ever since emulating Holyfield and unifying the cruiserweight division in 2008, Haye has been earmarked as potential saviour of the heavyweights.

The 28-year-old Haye, 22-1 (21 KO), exploded on the world heavyweight scene last November with a fifth-round stoppage of common opponent Barrett. He promises a similar result on November 7.

“I can’t wait to step into the ring on November 7 and prove that size doesn’t matter,” said Haye. “Mark my words: I will be the first man to knock Nikolai Valuev out.”


*** ‘DAVID VS. GOLIATH’, the world heavyweight title blockbuster between David Haye and Nikolai Valuev, will be screened live and exclusively in the United Kingdom on Sky Box Office ***

[Mikkel]

I wish the slow, robotic and ultra boring russians would just somehow disappear, but I'm afraid they won't go voluntarily.

[REED]

Haye will Beat the Shit Out of Valuev....


REEDhammery

[Valdosta]

Actually pretty smart if he is fighting Valuev instead of Vitali. He has a reasonable chance of winning and it puts him in better negotiating position for the future.

[Mikkel]

Yea good move, and will make him stronger while the klitskos are getting older.

[HOMICIDE]

though it is a smart move it is not one that the fans should like, there is no way you talk so much crap about two brothers have a chance to fight both of them and pulled out of each one...not kool :no:

[Michael Matos]

Timberrrrrrrrrr...

[Rabid Kimba]

Yeah...Valuev sucks ass.

[Yobbo]

Haye will lose.

[Valdosta]

though it is a smart move it is not one that the fans should like, there is no way you talk so much crap about two brothers have a chance to fight both of them and pulled out of each one...not kool :no:

Thats true as well. he should have kept his mouth shut, it made him look like a bitch.

[Laztrooper]

though it is a smart move it is not one that the fans should like, there is no way you talk so much crap about two brothers have a chance to fight both of them and pulled out of each one...not kool :no:Ya that is what bugs me most about Haye but, I dislike Valuev as well.

[witton_lane]

Actually pretty smart if he is fighting Valuev instead of Vitali. He has a reasonable chance of winning and it puts him in better negotiating position for the future.

Someone sees the bigger picture here then....that's exactly why Haye has done this. He was offered another bitch contract by Vitali so he told him to fuck himself and now he's fighting for a version of the belt which means the Klitschkos won't be able to pull that crap again in the future.

What's interesting is that Don King of all people must have offered Haye a better deal than the Krauts did :eeeeeky:

What I read was that the Klitschko contract meant that if Haye beat Vitaly he'd then have to rematch him (fair enough) and if he won that he'd have to then fight 2 more fights against a Klitschko, probably Wladimir with the Klitschkos promoting all 4 fights and taking the lions share of the money. Yeah, that sounds like a great deal doesn't it :headscratch:

If Haye beats Valuev he'll be back at the table able to get 50%, and with none of the bitch clauses, it's a smart move.

[Carlos]

What's interesting is that Don King of all people must have offered Haye a better deal than the Krauts did :eeeeeky:


wich germans would that be?

[Lefty]

I can't see Haye knocking Valuev out, which means Haye will probably lose.

[Eric0816]

It took Haye one fight and a lot of hot air to become the biggest bitch in the heavyweight division.

[Rebel]

I can't see Haye knocking Valuev out, which means Haye will probably lose.
Did you watch Holyfield vs Valuev? Most people thought Holy won even though he only threw about 2 punches a round. :haha:

Haye wins by being more athletic and active.

[Rebel]

It took Haye one fight and a lot of hot air to become the biggest bitch in the heavyweight division.
I wouldn't call him a bitch.

He's a small heavyweight who should've been taking this path all along.

[Dark Destroyer]

Someone sees the bigger picture here then....that's exactly why Haye has done this. He was offered another bitch contract by Vitali so he told him to fuck himself and now he's fighting for a version of the belt which means the Klitschkos won't be able to pull that crap again in the future.

What's interesting is that Don King of all people must have offered Haye a better deal than the Krauts did :eeeeeky:

What I read was that the Klitschko contract meant that if Haye beat Vitaly he'd then have to rematch him (fair enough) and if he won that he'd have to then fight 2 more fights against a Klitschko, probably Wladimir with the Klitschkos promoting all 4 fights and taking the lions share of the money. Yeah, that sounds like a great deal doesn't it :headscratch:

If Haye beats Valuev he'll be back at the table able to get 50%, and with none of the bitch clauses, it's a smart move.

I don't see it as a smart move. Valuev has never been knocked down and in my opinion Haye has to somehow overcome an 8 stone disadvantage to knock him out to win because of the bullshit judges in Germany. Valuev lost to Holyfield but was given the decision which was a boxing disgrace, so Haye fighting Valuev in Germany is not a smart move. I predict a loss on points no matter how good Haye fights.

[Lefty]

Did you watch Holyfield vs Valuev? Most people thought Holy won even though he only threw about 2 punches a round. :haha:

Haye wins by being more athletic and active.

Holyfield got on his toes and boxed around, and was cagey, Haye won't do that, he has to go for a KO, part of his make up.

Completely different style aand approach to the fight.

Top that with Holy having a chin 10 times better than Hayes, and that Haye is actually pretty easy to hit,

[Rebel]

Holyfield got on his toes and boxed around, and was cagey, Haye won't do that, he has to go for a KO, part of his make up.

Completely different style aand approach to the fight.

Top that with Holy having a chin 10 times better than Hayes, and that Haye is actually pretty easy to hit,
I'd probably agree with you if Valuev wasn't so bad. The guy throws about 1 meaningful punch a round.

[Lefty]

I'd probably agree with you if Valuev wasn't so bad. The guy throws about 1 meaningful punch a round.

True, Valuev is pretty bad, but Haye is totally untested as a Heavy. He just has'nt fought anyone of note.

[Arben]

Haye beats Valuev easy. He's shoot right hands from the outside and eventually break valuev down into taking a knee or some shit.

Good for him for turning down a bad offer from the klitschkos. Sure, that's probably the best fight in the heavyweight division, but he's doing some great marketing and making the heavyweight division interesteing again....by not fighting.

[Jack1000]

Look on the bright side, at least he'll almost certainly beat the shit out of Valuev. Good business move. He will get a world title and be in a better bargaining position for title unifications. I just HOPE that he steamrolls the shit out of Valuev. (And for Haye's sake, let's hope it does NOT go to the cards.) We all saw what happened to Holyfield against Valuev. I still can't fathom how several non-American writers and the WBA President Gilberto Mendosa had Valuev slightly ahead in that fight. Everyone on American soil had that fight a huge win for Holyfield. I had Evander up 117-111.

Jack

[Erik]

though it is a smart move it is not one that the fans should like, there is no way you talk so much crap about two brothers have a chance to fight both of them and pulled out of each one...not kool :no:


I agree.

[Erik]

I'd probably agree with you if Valuev wasn't so bad. The guy throws about 1 meaningful punch a round.


But Haye was dropped again in last fight by Barrett. So it may only take one good punch to end the night. Valuevs size/weight alone behind that jab and reach could be to much for Haye to handle.

No doubt Haye is in better shape and has the better skills but if he cant hurt Valuev then he may be in trouble.

[witton_lane]

But Haye was dropped again in last fight by Barrett. So it may only take one good punch to end the night. Valuevs size/weight alone behind that jab and reach could be to much for Haye to handle.

No doubt Haye is in better shape and has the better skills but if he cant hurt Valuev then he may be in trouble.

Haye was not dropped against Barrett.

[Erik]

Haye was not dropped against Barrett.


Yes he was. We already went over this. Punch landed on top of head and Haye was on his ass.

[witton_lane]

Yes he was. We already went over this. Punch landed on top of head and Haye was on his ass.

It was a slip, was ruled a slip and Barrett was deducted a point when he could have been DQ'd.

Haye got up and KO'd the guy within 30 seconds.

[sancreed]

Haye beats Valuev easy. He's shoot right hands from the outside and eventually break valuev down into taking a knee or some shit.

Good for him for turning down a bad offer from the klitschkos. Sure, that's probably the best fight in the heavyweight division, but he's doing some great marketing and making the heavyweight division interesteing again....by not fighting.

That's the scenario I envisage too.

[Rabid Kimba]

wich germans would that be?

:lol:

[Rabid Kimba]

It took Haye one fight and a lot of hot air to become the biggest bitch in the heavyweight division.

:nod:

[Rabid Kimba]

Yo Witton...if Haye gets KOd by lame ass Valuev...you will NEVER...EVER...hear the end of me...

...you'll be sorry...very sorry...

:haha: :mex: :devilfinger:

[sancreed]

Yo Witton...if Haye gets KOd by lame ass Valuev...you will NEVER...EVER...hear the end of me...

...you'll be sorry...very sorry...

:haha: :mex: :devilfinger:

This sounds a truly awful scenario. Could we please have have a very very long silence from you first as possible compensation.

[Carlos]

I thought Valuev had a mandatory due (Ruiz)

[Dark Destroyer]

Haye video interview about the fight:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12183_5449864,00.html

[Erik]

It was a slip, was ruled a slip and Barrett was deducted a point when he could have been DQ'd.

Haye got up and KO'd the guy within 30 seconds.


I never said it was ruled a knockdown. But he was knocked down by a clean punch. It should have been ruled a knockdown.

[Erik]

I have the fight on DVD and there is a punch landed that puts him down, then he does hit him while down. The ref jumps in and warns him of the foul. Hayes feet are planted and he is a bit off balance but it was still a punch. It is at around 8:40 of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEdtB8CZSiY skip ahead and show me a slip.

[meetthefeebles]

I never said it was ruled a knockdown. But he was knocked down by a clean punch. It should have been ruled a knockdown.

Under any objective observation, Haye was KD by Barrett prior to his stopping him. Unquestionably so in fact. You don't need to rely on corrupt/incompetent officials to tell you who has been KD in a boxing fight you am watching.

MTF

[meetthefeebles]

Good fight for and a smart move by Haye.

Haye should be too good for the lumbering moron who quite obviously managed to lose to a trillion year old Evander Holyfield not so long ago. Even if Haye doesn't stop him, which I think he will anyway, he'll be far too mobile and active to drop a decision. At least I hope so, anyway.

Unless Valuev's one punch a round actually lands...:crying:

Haye will take some shit for not fighting a Klit, but he's right not to do so on the terms they seem to have offered him. It seems clear to me that Wlad didn't ever really want that fight- he only took it because Haye absolutely backed him into a corner with all his shit-talking, and once Setanta collapsed and took Haye's wages with them (or Haye got 'injured') the brother's Grimm wasted no time in trying to shoehorn Haye into a fight with Vitali. A fight Haye had about a 5% chance of winning IMHO. On top of that, it seems by all accounts that they practically 'owned' Haye in the event he somehow beat Vitali- a plethora of fights against the Klit's for dogshit money at their beck and call.

Fuck that for a game of toy soldiers. As already pointed out, this way David is likely to win that HW title belt he always claimed he would and puts himself in a real bargaining position when the Klits come calling again. and they will, despite their bullshit to the contrary.

One last thing. Haye almost certainly was NOT injured when he pulled out in June but people on the internet talking about what a coward he is really pisses me off. How many of these people have even been in a boxing ring, let alone fight the recognised champion for no money whatsoever. People who say that Haye lacks balls are idiots: this is a guy who went to France to fight the undisputed CW champion in his own backyard and got up from a heavy KD to spark him clean out. Some coward...

MTF

[witton_lane]

I have the fight on DVD and there is a punch landed that puts him down, then he does hit him while down. The ref jumps in and warns him of the foul. Hayes feet are planted and he is a bit off balance but it was still a punch. It is at around 8:40 of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEdtB8CZSiY skip ahead and show me a slip.

I've seen it plenty of times. We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Vitaly getting knocked down by Sanders is another matter though :mex:

[witton_lane]

Yo Witton...if Haye gets KOd by lame ass Valuev...you will NEVER...EVER...hear the end of me...

...you'll be sorry...very sorry...

:haha: :mex: :devilfinger:

I'm sure I won't....but you know me I'm perfectly capable of fighting back :mex:

[witton_lane]

Good fight for and a smart move by Haye.

Haye should be too good for the lumbering moron who quite obviously managed to lose to a trillion year old Evander Holyfield not so long ago. Even if Haye doesn't stop him, which I think he will anyway, he'll be far too mobile and active to drop a decision. At least I hope so, anyway.

Unless Valuev's one punch a round actually lands...:crying:

Haye will take some shit for not fighting a Klit, but he's right not to do so on the terms they seem to have offered him. It seems clear to me that Wlad didn't ever really want that fight- he only took it because Haye absolutely backed him into a corner with all his shit-talking, and once Setanta collapsed and took Haye's wages with them (or Haye got 'injured') the brother's Grimm wasted no time in trying to shoehorn Haye into a fight with Vitali. A fight Haye had about a 5% chance of winning IMHO. On top of that, it seems by all accounts that they practically 'owned' Haye in the event he somehow beat Vitali- a plethora of fights against the Klit's for dogshit money at their beck and call.

Fuck that for a game of toy soldiers. As already pointed out, this way David is likely to win that HW title belt he always claimed he would and puts himself in a real bargaining position when the Klits come calling again. and they will, despite their bullshit to the contrary.

One last thing. Haye almost certainly was NOT injured when he pulled out in June but people on the internet talking about what a coward he is really pisses me off. How many of these people have even been in a boxing ring, let alone fight the recognised champion for no money whatsoever. People who say that Haye lacks balls are idiots: this is a guy who went to France to fight the undisputed CW champion in his own backyard and got up from a heavy KD to spark him clean out. Some coward...

MTF

Good post, and the bold bit most definately was the problem - they imposed the same conditions when he was to fight Wladimir apparently but Haye still signed the contract because he felt it was an easy fight - no way on earth should he have fought while injured, or for no money depending on which story you believe.

The Klits pulled the same shit with the Vitaly contract and Haye was obviously running a Dutch auction with King in the background offering the Valuev fight. It comes to something when the best offer is from Don King, that tells you all you need to know about this fiasco.

Just to add to the fun I hear Ruiz is now protesting to the WBA about the Haye fight, claiming he should fight Valuev.....nice one Jaaawny I can't wait to see you go toe to toe with Valuev again, you cunt :grayupset:

[Lefty]

In the meantime, Haye could fight Ruiz, Knock him out in around, and put himself in a position to command more money, But hang on...........

Haye won't do that, because it's too risky.


Haye could fight Holyfield, in the meantime too, his back is hea;ed, he was in intense training, good enough to fight Wlad 3 weeks after being injured. But no. he just does nothing.

Haye is just taking the piss.

[meetthefeebles]

In the meantime, Haye could fight Ruiz, Knock him out in around, and put himself in a position to command more money, But hang on...........

Haye won't do that, because it's too risky.

Haye would beat Ruiz hollow. Ruiz is, was and has always been, pure dogshit.

MTF

[Lefty]

Could, would, BUT did'nt.

Haye could have beaten them all, but did'nt.

I can't believe people keep falling for it, actually I can, because people are so desperate for a new heavy to crash the party.

[meetthefeebles]

Could, would, BUT did'nt.

Haye could have beaten them all, but did'nt.

I can't believe people keep falling for it, actually I can, because people are so desperate for a new heavy to crash the party.

Hang on: hasn't he just signed to beat (one of) the guys who beat Ruiz? Twice?

I've never, EVER seen a guy who has been so wished to fail before he's had a chance to make his mark. It's absurd.

MTF

[Lefty]

Hang on: hasn't he just signed to beat (one of) the guys who beat Ruiz? Twice?

I've never, EVER seen a guy who has been so wished to fail before he's had a chance to make his mark. It's absurd.

MTF


Haye could have had 3-4 fights in the time he's been at heavyweight, he's had lot of time to make his mark, other than just talking.

I don't wish him to fail, I just wish he had cleaned up the division, like he said he would/could.

Guess we'll have to wait till November now, with all the hype that will come with it.

But if he had fought Holyfield, Ruiz, Maskaev, Tooney, Rahman, McCline, or a few more I could mention, I'd feel alittle more postitive.

The other thing that does bug me is, all this talk about how powerful Haye is, sure he's got a good punch, when he throws his whole weight into the punch, but he's not a devestating puncher, like a Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, or Lewis, etc.

I just think the guy is completely over-rated as a heavy.
Infact he's not even carved out a name as a great cruiser.

He should chnge his name to David Hype.

[meetthefeebles]

I don't wish him to fail

He should chnge his name to David Hype.

You could have left out all the rest and simply posted this. In doing so, you made my point entirely...

MTF

[Lefty]

You could have left out all the rest and simply posted this. In doing so, you made my point entirely...

MTF

I could have, but I'm guessing you don't like to hear it, so it's a little self gratification on my behalf.:smiles::

I'd like him to win, but I don't think he will, I'd also have liked him to have done the things he said he would, But he did'nt.

Sorry, but he deserves the flak.

[meetthefeebles]

Haye could have had 3-4 fights in the time he's been at heavyweight, he's had lot of time to make his mark, other than just talking.

I don't wish him to fail, I just wish he had cleaned up the division, like he said he would/could.

Guess we'll have to wait till November now, with all the hype that will come with it.

But if he had fought Holyfield, Ruiz, Maskaev, Tooney, Rahman, McCline, or a few more I could mention, I'd feel alittle more postitive.

The other thing that does bug me is, all this talk about how powerful Haye is, sure he's got a good punch, when he throws his whole weight into the punch, but he's not a devestating puncher, like a Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, or Lewis, etc.

I just think the guy is completely over-rated as a heavy.
Infact he's not even carved out a name as a great cruiser.

He should chnge his name to David Hype.

Okay, go on then, I'll bite...

Why didin't Juan Manuel Marquez fight Katsidis, Valero, Khan or some other top ten lightweights before fighting Casamayor and Diaz when he moved up?

Why didn't Calzaghe fight Clinton Woods, Tarver or some other top ten Light Heavies before he fought Bernard Hopkins?

Why didn't Manny Pac fight Witter, Holt, Torres, Bradley or Kotelnik before fight Ricky hatton?

Absolutely NO-ONE, and I do mean NO-ONE, complained about these guys getting passes to the top guys when they started skipping weight divisions. So why this negativity when David Haye, the unified, and consensus undisputed CW champion (and don't even bother saying the words 'Steve Cunningham' at this point) tries to do EXACTLY the same as all of these other guys? :555:

The ONLY answer is that people don't like him because he is a gobshite. So fuckinhg what? Would people prefer yet more eastern European robots from the backend of God-knows where to come along and strangle the life out of boxing's most prestigeous division? Haye comes to fight and he fights to KTFO his opponent. None of this Wlad style, 'power-parrying' disrgacefulness which almost killed the last vestiges of HW credibility (v Ibragimov) or mysterious injuries lasting four years (Vitali) or fat men masquerading as elite boxers (Peter, Chambers and a million others).

Here we have a bloke who wants to fight the top fighters and spark them out. Regardless of whether or not he is half as good as he thinks he is (he isn't), we should at least enjoy watching him try. I'll tell you this for nothing mate- I'd rather watch six rounds of ANY David Haye fight than 150 rounds of any Wlad's last half dozen fights. Wouldn't you?

MTF

[Joe King]

I really hope Ruiz doesn't block this fight.

[Lefty]

Well, Marquez and Calzaghe both proved themselves to be the best in their divisions, with defenses.
Correct me if I'm wrong but did Haye actually defend his 'Unified title?'.

Bit of a difference in my opinion.

He's also had two title opportunities agains the Klitchkos, both did'nt work out because of Hayes reluctance to fight for less money than he thinks he should get.
Not exactly a sign, of a hungry confident fighter.

And on top of that, he has refused to fight atleast half a dozen other heavies, who might have tested him more, than a small, not strong, and over the hill Barrett.

So yes, I would like to have seen haye fight, because he is exciting, the only trouble is he just has not fought.

[Lefty]

I really hope Ruiz doesn't block this fight.

I think is a distinct possibility that Ruiz can block this fight. Hate it, but Ruiz is the mandatory.

If Valuev fights haye, I can see him being stripped, so it's no longer a World title shot, and Chagaev being instated as the champion.

Haye's fast tracking to a title shot could easily just put everything back to square one again.

But if Haye had made a name for himself at heavy or even at cruiser he would have more bargaining power.

[meetthefeebles]

Well, Marquez and Calzaghe both proved themselves to be the best in their divisions, with defenses.
Correct me if I'm wrong but did Haye actually defend his 'Unified title?'.

Bit of a difference in my opinion.

He's also had two title opportunities agains the Klitchkos, both did'nt work out because of Hayes reluctance to fight for less money than he thinks he should get.
Not exactly a sign, of a hungry confident fighter.

And on top of that, he has refused to fight atleast half a dozen other heavies, who might have tested him more, than a small, not strong, and over the hill Barrett.

So yes, I would like to have seen haye fight, because he is exciting, the only trouble is he just has not fought.

Now there's a Catch 22 for you: when a guy fights lots of defences against stiffs, he gets called for milking his alphabet titles (see the RJJ v Hopkins thread). When he unifies and moves up because his division is, by all objective standards, a complete dead-man's zone, he gets criticised for not hanging around to beat some stiffs... :24:

Oh, and Marquez didn't 'prove himself' the best in his division. He was 0-1-1 in fights against the consensus best in his division (Manny). By any general standard, there was far less controversy in Haye being the best at 200 when he moved up then JMM being the best at 130. And of course, JMM has THREE fights in total at 130, the first being a title shot v a shot MAB. He then left and had an immediate title shot at Casa. Tell me again where the difference is?

Haye wasn't going to fight Wlad for LESS money; he would ahve fought him for NO money. He was getting NONE of the gate money- all of his cash came from Setanta who hadn't paid him upfront and have since gone bust. If he kept to the Wlad fight, he earned ZERO pounds. You still think his refusal is down to him not being 'hungry' or 'confident'?

He was scehduled to fight Wlad and that fell through. within weeks, he is scheduled to fight another guy. Where and when should Haye have been fighting these other 'top guys' like Raham, Ruiz and (you actually listed this guy) Holyfield?

An objective anaylsis of the facts will assist you here. Hatred can blind in the most unplesant ways.

MTF

[meetthefeebles]

But if Haye had made a name for himself at heavy or even at cruiser he would have more bargaining power.

laughatyou

MTF

[Lefty]

Now there's a Catch 22 for you: when a guy fights lots of defences against stiffs, he gets called for milking his alphabet titles (see the RJJ v Hopkins thread). When he unifies and moves up because his division is, by all objective standards, a complete dead-man's zone, he gets criticised for not hanging around to beat some stiffs... :24:

Oh, and Marquez didn't 'prove himself' the best in his division. He was 0-1-1 in fights against the consensus best in his division (Manny). By any general standard, there was far less controversy in Haye being the best at 200 when he moved up then JMM being the best at 130. And of course, JMM has THREE fights in total at 130, the first being a title shot v a shot MAB. He then left and had an immediate title shot at Casa. Tell me again where the difference is?

Haye wasn't going to fight Wlad for LESS money; he would ahve fought him for NO money. He was getting NONE of the gate money- all of his cash came from Setanta who hadn't paid him upfront and have since gone bust. If he kept to the Wlad fight, he earned ZERO pounds. You still think his refusal is down to him not being 'hungry' or 'confident'?

He was scehduled to fight Wlad and that fell through. within weeks, he is scheduled to fight another guy. Where and when should Haye have been fighting these other 'top guys' like Raham, Ruiz and (you actually listed this guy) Holyfield?

An objective anaylsis of the facts will assist you here. Hatred can blind in the most unplesant ways.

MTF


Ok, so let's say there was no one else for Haye to fight at cruiser, so he goes to heavy expecting a fight for the World title.

So why such a crappy deal, that's the point about having a bit of bargaining power, and why not Vitali, was that for no money too.

And here we are talking about Manny, so who do we compare to Manny on Hayes resume?

Holyfield/ Haye is that such a bad match up, personally, I would'nt put any of my money on Haye to win this fight.

Oh hang on, Haye did beat Barrett though!!, instead of the other half dozen heavies previously mentioned.

[Lefty]

laughatyou

MTF


Obviously you have'nt understood. Never mind. :wink7:

[meetthefeebles]

Obviously you have'nt understood. Never mind. :wink7:

Dude, I understand perfectly.

You hate David Haye.

MTF

[Lefty]

Ok, I admit I hate how he's handled himself.

But it's more from frustration at his inability to put his fists where his mouth is.

[meetthefeebles]

Ok, so let's say there was no one else for Haye to fight at cruiser, so he goes to heavy expecting a fight for the World title.

So why such a crappy deal, that's the point about having a bit of bargaining power, and why not Vitali, was that for no money too.

And here we are talking about Manny, so who do we compare to Manny on Hayes resume?

Holyfield/ Haye is that such a bad match up, personally, I would'nt put any of my money on Haye to win this fight.

Oh hang on, Haye did beat Barrett though!!, instead of the other half dozen heavies previously mentioned.

None of this address any of the points I raised. It's just a bunch of strawman silliness which reflects perfectly that, despite having no logical, boxing-related reason for doing so, you don't like Haye.

Hey, that's your perogative mate. Just don't try to dress it up behind some nonsense about 'not being recognised at Cruiserweight' (despite beating two of the three beltholders and having the biggest mouth in boxing) or 'working his way to his title shot' when no-one else at any other weight is asked to do so and when the division is full of complete and utter slobs and DEFINIATELY don't be mentioning Evander Holyfield as a viable opponent. Unless in a mythical matchup (which Haye loses badly of course).

MTF

[meetthefeebles]

Ok, I admit I hate how he's handled himself.

But it's more from frustration at his inability to put his fists where his mouth is.

:clappy:

Does that feel better mate? They say honesty is the best policy, after all!

MTF :beer:

[BKING]

I thought Valuev had a mandatory due (Ruiz)

Ohhh how my heart is broken that these two aren't meeting for 28th time. :crying:

[Lefty]

:clappy:

Does that feel better mate? They say honesty is the best policy, after all!

MTF :beer:


Yep, like being born again. :lol:

[meetthefeebles]

Yep, like being born again. :lol:

I understand, of course, that Haye is a mouthy prick. It's easy to dislike him. And if he gets streched, then he'll have farther to fall than most. But most good fighters are arrogant bastards- you have to be arrogant to be a good fighter in fact. And at least he gets people talking about HW's again: and it's been a while since anyone did that.

He will be Valuev, though. I'm fairly confident if that. And Valuev is, what, at worst the fourth or fifth best HW right now?

MTF

[Lefty]

None of this address any of the points I raised. It's just a bunch of strawman silliness which reflects perfectly that, despite having no logical, boxing-related reason for doing so, you don't like Haye.

Hey, that's your perogative mate. Just don't try to dress it up behind some nonsense about 'not being recognised at Cruiserweight' (despite beating two of the three beltholders and having the biggest mouth in boxing) or 'working his way to his title shot' when no-one else at any other weight is asked to do so and when the division is full of complete and utter slobs and DEFINIATELY don't be mentioning Evander Holyfield as a viable opponent. Unless in a mythical matchup (which Haye loses badly of course).

MTF

No dressing up, it's all there as fact.
So he was'nt even the Unified champ and with no defenses.

Not exactly another coming of Holyfield then.

It just gets better and better, shame he can't seem to secure a better contract for his fights then.

[Lefty]

I understand, of course, that Haye is a mouthy prick. It's easy to dislike him. And if he gets streched, then he'll have farther to fall than most. But most good fighters are arrogant bastards- you have to be arrogant to be a good fighter in fact. And at least he gets people talking about HW's again: and it's been a while since anyone did that.

He will be Valuev, though. I'm fairly confident if that. And Valuev is, what, at worst the fourth or fifth best HW right now?

MTF

I don't mind arrogant fighters as long as they can back it up, Haye so far has not.

But then if, and it's a big IF, he does beat Valuev, then I'll start to give him some credit.

Just got to wait till November now.

[Carlos]

Ohhh how my heart is broken that these two aren't meeting for 28th time. :crying:

Personally i dont care who of them fights who, but if they wanted to put any credibility into the title they should atleast honor the mandatories (ofcourse that would be too much to ask, but hey you never know).

[ironhammer444]

Someone sees the bigger picture here then....that's exactly why Haye has done this. He was offered another bitch contract by Vitali so he told him to fuck himself and now he's fighting for a version of the belt which means the Klitschkos won't be able to pull that crap again in the future.

What's interesting is that Don King of all people must have offered Haye a better deal than the Krauts did :eeeeeky:

What I read was that the Klitschko contract meant that if Haye beat Vitaly he'd then have to rematch him (fair enough) and if he won that he'd have to then fight 2 more fights against a Klitschko, probably Wladimir with the Klitschkos promoting all 4 fights and taking the lions share of the money. Yeah, that sounds like a great deal doesn't it :headscratch:

If Haye beats Valuev he'll be back at the table able to get 50%, and with none of the bitch clauses, it's a smart move.
Gaye is scared

[ironhammer444]

I've seen it plenty of times. We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Vitaly getting knocked down by Sanders is another matter though :mex:
Are you comparing Barret to Sanders. Only a British idiot would still support Gaye

[meetthefeebles]

Are you comparing Barret to Sanders. Only a British idiot would still support Gaye

Is the word 'gaye' still used as an insult? It suddenly became the 1970's in here...

MTF

[ironhammer444]

Yes indeed Gaye is gay. It's so obvious Haye is a big mouth fraud. He will never step into the ring with a Klitschko. He's a British cowared from a sorry ass country. Gaye is scared and for good reason.

[meetthefeebles]

Yes indeed Gaye is gay. It's so obvious Haye is a big mouth fraud. He will never step into the ring with a Klitschko. He's a British cowared from a sorry ass country. Gaye is scared and for good reason.

It is extremely concerning that someone of your obvious intellect is allowed near a keyboard. Too many sharp edges I fear.

MTF

[witton_lane]

Yes indeed Gaye is gay. It's so obvious Haye is a big mouth fraud. He will never step into the ring with a Klitschko. He's a British cowared from a sorry ass country. Gaye is scared and for good reason.

Ah, a Klitschko nut-hugger calling Haye 'Gaye', how ironic.

How 'Gaye' is this, spunk-breath?

http://blog.kievukraine.info/4546.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/45193944_adca59c539.jpg

http://www.wallpapergate.com/data/media/367/Klitchko_Brothers_001.jpg

I love the fact that the Klitschkos are so brave and so confident that they keep offering bitch-terms in the contracts though - that proves a lot.

As for the sorry assed country, do you want me to post the pictures of Vitalys eye that looks like a bleeding cunt after the Lewis fight?

[ironhammer444]

It's amazing how Gaye has been proven to a total fraud and the blind clueless Brits still defend him. Let him sign with King. He could give us such exiting fights against Valuev and Ruiz. YAWN! Gaye will never step into the ring with a Klitschko. He is nothing but a big mouth coward.

[Rabid Kimba]

In the meantime, Haye could fight Ruiz, Knock him out in around, and put himself in a position to command more money, But hang on...........

Haye won't do that, because it's too risky.


Haye could fight Holyfield, in the meantime too, his back is hea;ed, he was in intense training, good enough to fight Wlad 3 weeks after being injured. But no. he just does nothing.

Haye is just taking the piss.

:haha:

[Rabid Kimba]

Haye could have had 3-4 fights in the time he's been at heavyweight, he's had lot of time to make his mark, other than just talking.

I don't wish him to fail, I just wish he had cleaned up the division, like he said he would/could.

Guess we'll have to wait till November now, with all the hype that will come with it.

But if he had fought Holyfield, Ruiz, Maskaev, Tooney, Rahman, McCline, or a few more I could mention, I'd feel alittle more postitive.

The other thing that does bug me is, all this talk about how powerful Haye is, sure he's got a good punch, when he throws his whole weight into the punch, but he's not a devestating puncher, like a Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, or Lewis, etc.

I just think the guy is completely over-rated as a heavy.
Infact he's not even carved out a name as a great cruiser.

He should chnge his name to David Hype.

:clappy:

[witton_lane]

It's amazing how Gaye has been proven to a total fraud and the blind clueless Brits still defend him. Let him sign with King. He could give us such exiting fights against Valuev and Ruiz. YAWN! Gaye will never step into the ring with a Klitschko. He is nothing but a big mouth coward.

As opposed to the raw savagery on display when Wlad fought Iggy you mean? :eeeeeky:

Interesting you think a unified Champion is a coward, I'd love to know how that works.

[Attraction]

It does leave a bad taste in the mouth, how Haye has conducted himself. Talking all the shit he has talked and then he pulls out twice. He should have taken the fights.

From his perspective, it's about money and his future. He would have got little to nothing for the first fight and the Klits are making him sign shitty contracts which are not fair. When he beats Valuev he will have more legs to stand on in the negotiations.

Haye does have balls though. He is calling the Klits out and talking shit about them regularly. If he pulls out of the Valuev fight, it will be impossible to defend him though.

[ironhammer444]

As opposed to the raw savagery on display when Wlad fought Iggy you mean? :eeeeeky:

Interesting you think a unified Champion is a coward, I'd love to know how that works.
Cruiserweight not heavyweight. Big difference. Haye is proven to scared of the Klitschkos. He will never fight them.

[broadwayjoe]

I understand, of course, that Haye is a mouthy prick. It's easy to dislike him. And if he gets streched, then he'll have farther to fall than most. But most good fighters are arrogant bastards- you have to be arrogant to be a good fighter in fact. And at least he gets people talking about HW's again: and it's been a while since anyone did that.

He will be Valuev, though. I'm fairly confident if that. And Valuev is, what, at worst the fourth or fifth best HW right now?

MTF

Which is proof the heavyweight division absolutely blows right now. And if Haye gets past the complete non-talent that is Valuev, but never fights either of the Klitschkos...the whatever title reign he manages will be a joke. ESPECIALLY after the amount of shit talking he has done.

[meetthefeebles]

Which is proof the heavyweight division absolutely blows right now. And if Haye gets past the complete non-talent that is Valuev, but never fights either of the Klitschkos...the whatever title reign he manages will be a joke. ESPECIALLY after the amount of shit talking he has done.

Of course the HW division blows right now. Why do you think I'd like Haye to succeed: it's like CPR to a fucking corpse.

MTF

[witton_lane]

Interview with Valuev about the fight:-

Q&A: Nikolai Valuev!

By Alexey Potapov
WBA heavyweight champion Nikolai Valuev has given an exclusive interview to Fightnews.com in which he speaks about his upcoming fight against former WBC/WBA/WBO cruiserweight champion David Haye on November 7th in Germany. It had been previously announced that Haye would fight against WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko on September 12, but the British hope then decided to challenge for Valuev’s title instead.

Hello, Niko! I am glad to see you again!
Hi, Alex! Fightnews.com best regards!

Niko, news about your fight with Haye has left many shocked. How quickly did you make a decision to take this fight?
Negotiations were conducted very quickly. It didn’t take long for me to think about and agree to this fight. I am sure that I’m better than him.

You knew that Haye would pull out of the fight with Vitali Klitschko?
Yes, I knew about it, but Vitali has not followed through on his promises. Several months ago Vitali and I spoke by phone and agreed to have a fight between us. Then Vitali stopped speaking to me. I communicated this to my promoter and they informed me that Klitschko doesn’t wish to fight me. What should I do after that? Wait? But by the time of this fight I’ll have not fought for nearly a year. A strong contender is necessary for me. I have chosen Haye. Unlike Team Klitschko, we have quickly come to an agreement with him.

Now having selected Vitali’s planned opponent, do you think this could cost you a fight against the Klitschkos?
If the Klitschko brothers wish to claim all the titles, they should fight me.

Haye hasn’t always proved to be a gentleman. You know about his t-shirt depicting the chopped-off heads of the Klitschko brothers. Are you ready for such treatment?
I think that will only make it worse for Haye! He will not distract me from my psychological balance. I have immunity to such things. And if he does manage to provoke me, he will be held responsible in the ring!

Why have you have chosen Haye? He’s not the official challenger on your title.
It’s my voluntary defense and I can fight with whomever I want.

The WBA’s mandatory challenger John Ruiz is protesting the fight and demanding through his lawyers that the WBA not authorize a fight between you and Haye.
Who is John Ruiz? To me it’s scandalous that he lives all his life in court in front of a judge. I’ve already beat him two times. I’m much stronger than him. He is not interesting to me as a challenger!

What about the fact that Haye has had only one fight in the division since officially moving to heavyweight?
He was the world champion at cruiserweight. He is very fast and dangerous, but I know that I’ll win. I’ll look at his fights, I’ll study him. I know he likes to talk for long amounts of time, but I will make the fight short.

Haye has stated that he refused the fight against Klitschko because of a bad contract. What conditions did Haye demand?
I don’t know. Ask my promoter. But I think it wasn’t the money. I know that Klitschko offered bad conditions for Haye. I even looked at the contract. These conditions were awful! The Klitschko brothers think only of their own benefit when make contracts for their opponents.

When you will begin preparation for fight?
For two weeks I’ve been preparing for the fight. Now I’m preparing in Russia, then I’ll have my main camp in Germany.

Are you afraid that Haye will pull out of the fight as he did with the Klitschko brothers?
No. After dealing with Ruslan Chagaev, now I’m not afraid of anything.

[broadwayjoe]

Of course the HW division blows right now. Why do you think I'd like Haye to succeed: it's like CPR to a fucking corpse.

MTF

It would be nice if Haye manages to make the division interesting again...but I remain skeptical. What effect Haye has on the heavies remains to be seen. Even if he gets past Valuev, he needs to fight at least one of the Klitschko brothers to have any validity as a champion.

[witton_lane]

So, to sum it up...Valuev says that it's true that the Bitchskos offer shit contracts with ridiculous clauses in them, and also Vitaly ducked him :24:

I'm starting to warm to Valuev now....

[Michael Matos]

So, to sum it up...Valuev says that it's true that the Bitchskos offer shit contracts with ridiculous clauses in them, and also Vitaly ducked him :24:

I'm starting to warm to Valuev now....

Horrid fighter but I've seen and read a few interviews of his and he is a likable bloke. The Klitchko's are getting punked here a little bit and this is a brilliant move by Haye and for Valuev. There is only one fight in the division and regardless if he's proven or not that fight is vs David Haye. If Haye beats Valuev then the one question that will be continually lobbed at the Klitchko's is going to be when are you fighting Haye. The longer that question takes to get answered the more popular David Haye becomes, then the whispers of peoples champion begins to be heard and such are the wonders of the modern sport, David Haye could become the most popular heavyweight in the world without much effort.

[Attraction]

Horrid fighter but I've seen and read a few interviews of his and he is a likable bloke. The Klitchko's are getting punked here a little bit and this is a brilliant move by Haye and for Valuev. There is only one fight in the division and regardless if he's proven or not that fight is vs David Haye. If Haye beats Valuev then the one question that will be continually lobbed at the Klitchko's is going to be when are you fighting Haye. The longer that question takes to get answered the more popular David Haye becomes, then the whispers of peoples champion begins to be heard and such are the wonders of the modern sport, David Haye could become the most popular heavyweight in the world without much effort.

The Klitschkos are bitches for offering shitty contracts and once Haye does Valuev he'll be able to negotiate on even terms.

However, Haye has been the one talking all the crap in the build up so to get a chance and then say, "no, i don't like the contract" is a bit ridiculous. Still, its a good move fighting Valuev, but I wish he kept his mouth shut because it makes him look like a bitch when he backs out.

[Michael Matos]

The Klitschkos are bitches for offering shitty contracts and once Haye does Valuev he'll be able to negotiate on even terms.

However, Haye has been the one talking all the crap in the build up so to get a chance and then say, "no, i don't like the contract" is a bit ridiculous. Still, its a good move fighting Valuev, but I wish he kept his mouth shut because it makes him look like a bitch when he backs out.

You could look at it another way, Haye talking all the crap in the buildup, got everybody talking, Haye was selling the fight, what was he going to say next etc. Then comes contract time and it's wait a minute I'm doing all the work and this what you are paying me. In all seriousness though I see your point and believe me share the dissapointment. I'd have paid to see it and I can't tell you the last time I said that about a heavyweight fight, I know going in that I'm not watching two legends of the ring but I do know regardless of the outcome it's going to be a fun night out. It's a classic " I told you so" fights whoever is watching is convinced that one or the other can't fight a lick. Add some alcohol and a group of friends who are collectively the greatest shit talkers of all time and it's a can't miss night out.

[meetthefeebles]

However, Haye has been the one talking all the crap in the build up so to get a chance and then say, "no, i don't like the contract" is a bit ridiculous. Still, its a good move fighting Valuev, but I wish he kept his mouth shut because it makes him look like a bitch when he backs out.

What people seem to be forgetting is that Haye had NO choice but to talk all that shit. If he hadn't, then the Klits wouldn't have given him the time of day. Nor would Valuev for that matter.


Whilst I understand the point you make, it is important I think to recognise the tactical neccessity of Haye's behaviour- crass though some of it may be.

MTF

[Lefty]

What people seem to be forgetting is that Haye had NO choice but to talk all that shit. If he hadn't, then the Klits wouldn't have given him the time of day. Nor would Valuev for that matter.


Whilst I understand the point you make, it is important I think to recognise the tactical neccessity of Haye's behaviour- crass though some of it may be.

MTF

'Tactical neccesity', that's a good one, I'll have to keep this one for another time.

'Doing bugger all in the ring' is a little more appropriate I think.

[WelshDevilRob]

The Klitschko's and their shocking contracts have left Haye with no option but to meet Valuev for the title and a better deal.

Interesting what Valuev had to say about the Klitschko's:

Niko, news about your fight with Haye has left many shocked. How quickly did you make a decision to take this fight?
Negotiations were conducted very quickly. It didn’t take long for me to think about and agree to this fight. I am sure that I’m better than him.

You knew that Haye would pull out of the fight with Vitali Klitschko?
Yes, I knew about it, but Vitali has not followed through on his promises. Several months ago Vitali and I spoke by phone and agreed to have a fight between us. Then Vitali stopped speaking to me. I communicated this to my promoter and they informed me that Klitschko doesn’t wish to fight me. What should I do after that? Wait? But by the time of this fight I’ll have not fought for nearly a year. A strong contender is necessary for me. I have chosen Haye. Unlike Team Klitschko, we have quickly come to an agreement with him.

Now having selected Vitali’s planned opponent, do you think this could cost you a fight against the Klitschkos?
If the Klitschko brothers wish to claim all the titles, they should fight me.

Haye has stated that he refused the fight against Klitschko because of a bad contract. What conditions did Haye demand?
I don’t know. Ask my promoter. But I think it wasn’t the money. I know that Klitschko offered bad conditions for Haye. I even looked at the contract. These conditions were awful! The Klitschko brothers think only of their own benefit when make contracts for their opponents.

Source:Fightnews

[Attraction]

What people seem to be forgetting is that Haye had NO choice but to talk all that shit. If he hadn't, then the Klits wouldn't have given him the time of day. Nor would Valuev for that matter.


Whilst I understand the point you make, it is important I think to recognise the tactical neccessity of Haye's behaviour- crass though some of it may be.

MTF

I get that but it's hard to swallow when you hear the shit he talked and see him running from the fights when they are on the table. He said the contracts were shit because they tied him up fighting the Klitschkos. He had to give Vitali a rematch if he won, then fight Wlad.

Why is he complaining about that?

If he can beat Vitali with ease like he "knows" he can, why not go for a rematch and why not then try to unify with Wladdy? Whats wrong with those terms?

[meetthefeebles]

I get that but it's hard to swallow when you hear the shit he talked and see him running from the fights when they are on the table. He said the contracts were shit because they tied him up fighting the Klitschkos. He had to give Vitali a rematch if he won, then fight Wlad.

Why is he complaining about that?

If he can beat Vitali with ease like he "knows" he can, why not go for a rematch and why not then try to unify with Wladdy? Whats wrong with those terms?

Let's be honest here...

Firstly, he didn't 'run' from the Wlad fight. He was either legitimately injured or, more likely, he saw the Setanta disaster and realised he was going to get paid exactly NOTHING to fight Wlad. Why on earth would he, or anyone else, do that?

Then Wlad decided to 'punish' Haye by refusing to reschedule. In short, Haye did no running here: Wlad threw his toys out of the pram and left things to his brother, who has appeared out of near enough nowhere to return to the ring and suddenly wanting to fight Haye. Now Haye is lots of things but he is not stupid. He knows for a fine fact that Vitali is a totally different proposition to Wlad. Wlad is vulnerable if caught early, whilst Vitali has a granite chin.

This is Haye's poition. If he fights Vitali, he almost certainly loses. Once he does, he loses a ton of credibility and is effectively finished as a HW before he starts. Or, by some off chance, he might win. He catches Vitali with something big and wins by KO. Then what? No mandatories allowed, no consolidation, money making fights. Instead, he has to immediately rematch Vitali, for likely the same or less money. Since when does a winning fighter have to take the shitty end of the contractual deal? And win or lose, he then has to fight Wlad?

What sort of nonsense is that? You show me a fighter who is FORCED, by contract, to fight the consensus no's one and two guys THREE times in a row with no mandatories, no tune-ups or 'easy beats' on contractual terms dictated by the other guys...

What's happened here is that the Klits have seen Haye's Setanta money disappear and tried to bully him into taking vastly poorer terms at a time when they perceived him to be desperate and out of options, unaware that Haye (as is his right) was exploring all possible avenues. Haye has then found better terms and told them to fuck off. Good for him.

MTF

[Attraction]

Let's be honest here...

Firstly, he didn't 'run' from the Wlad fight. He was either legitimately injured or, more likely, he saw the Setanta disaster and realised he was going to get paid exactly NOTHING to fight Wlad. Why on earth would he, or anyone else, do that?

Then Wlad decided to 'punish' Haye by refusing to reschedule. In short, Haye did no running here: Wlad threw his toys out of the pram and left things to his brother, who has appeared out of near enough nowhere to return to the ring and suddenly wanting to fight Haye. Now Haye is lots of things but he is not stupid. He knows for a fine fact that Vitali is a totally different proposition to Wlad. Wlad is vulnerable if caught early, whilst Vitali has a granite chin.

This is Haye's poition. If he fights Vitali, he almost certainly loses. Once he does, he loses a ton of credibility and is effectively finished as a HW before he starts. Or, by some off chance, he might win. He catches Vitali with something big and wins by KO. Then what? No mandatories allowed, no consolidation, money making fights. Instead, he has to immediately rematch Vitali, for likely the same or less money. Since when does a winning fighter have to take the shitty end of the contractual deal? And win or lose, he then has to fight Wlad?

What sort of nonsense is that? You show me a fighter who is FORCED, by contract, to fight the consensus no's one and two guys THREE times in a row with no mandatories, no tune-ups or 'easy beats' on contractual terms dictated by the other guys...

What's happened here is that the Klits have seen Haye's Setanta money disappear and tried to bully him into taking vastly poorer terms at a time when they perceived him to be desperate and out of options, unaware that Haye (as is his right) was exploring all possible avenues. Haye has then found better terms and told them to fuck off. Good for him.

MTF

If we are to believe Haye though, the Vitali and Wlad fights will be easy KOs. The shit he has talked has been insurmountable. The Klits are pussies for how they conduct their negotiations for sure. But I don't see whats so bad about a deal where you get to fight two fighters who you have said will be easy KO victories and will make you the UNDISPUTED champion and ready to make MULTI million dollar paydays.

It wouldn't be so bad if Haye didn't talk the amount of insurmountable SHIT he has talked. People think he is scared of Vitali now. He probably is.

The fact is, Haye is coming to the table with a win over Monte Barrett. He has nothing here. The only reason he was getting a shot was because of the disrespectful conduct he has chosen to use. I really hope Valuev beats him now personally and if he gets robbed on the cards, I won't feel sorry for him.

[Jack1000]

Okay, go on then, I'll bite...

Why didn't Juan Manuel Marquez fight Katsidis, Valero, Khan or some other top ten lightweights before fighting Casamayor and Diaz when he moved up?

Why didn't Calzaghe fight Clinton Woods, Tarver or some other top ten Light Heavies before he fought Bernard Hopkins?

Why didn't Manny Pac fight Witter, Holt, Torres, Bradley or Kotelnik before fight Ricky hatton?

Absolutely NO-ONE, and I do mean NO-ONE, complained about these guys getting passes to the top guys when they started skipping weight divisions. So why this negativity when David Haye, the unified, and consensus undisputed CW champion (and don't even bother saying the words 'Steve Cunningham' at this point) tries to do EXACTLY the same as all of these other guys? :555:

The ONLY answer is that people don't like him because he is a gobshite. So fucking what? Would people prefer yet more eastern European robots from the backend of God-knows where to come along and strangle the life out of boxing's most prestigious division? Haye comes to fight and he fights to KTFO his opponent. None of this Wlad style, 'power-parrying' disgracefulness which almost killed the last vestiges of HW credibility (v Ibragimov) or mysterious injuries lasting four years (Vitali) or fat men masquerading as elite boxers (Peter, Chambers and a million others).

Here we have a bloke who wants to fight the top fighters and spark them out. Regardless of whether or not he is half as good as he thinks he is (he isn't), we should at least enjoy watching him try. I'll tell you this for nothing mate- I'd rather watch six rounds of ANY David Haye fight than 150 rounds of any Wlad's last half dozen fights. Wouldn't you?

MTF

This is a great post. I believe what is said about Haye in this post is very true. David Haye may be limited as a heavyweight, but he comes to fight and is exciting to watch. When is the last time that either Klitschko had an exciting fight? Ruiz, Chegnev, Valuev? Same shit different days. Same boring shit. I mean seriously, for the critics of Haye who may not want this fight for some reason, (I can't imagine what that reason would be.) What heavyweight contender do you want who's out there and can make some noise and give the fans some excitement to the heavyweight division if it's not Haye? The Klits will never unify their belts, and even if they did, they would spend all night in a little jabbing contest trying not to hurt the other.

Jack

[Eric0816]

David Haye may be limited as a heavyweight, but he comes to fight and is exciting to watch.

Oh, really? Right now he has a win over friggin' Monte Barrett plus having bitched out of two fight against the Klitschko brothers. That´s all.

Besides his trashtalk he has zero resume whatsoever at heavyweight and not many people believe he can take a meaningful Klitschko punch.

The Klitschkos have nothing to win by beating a "small guy" like him still they gave him a shot twice. If they knock him out which is exactly what everybody expects they wont got any credit for that. Haye only talked himself into the fight by being a complete asshole and then bitched out.

How fukkin' lame is that?

The only thing thats more annoying than him are the excuses made up by his bandwagoners.

Make no mistake, I would have rooted for him against the brothers but now I hope Valuev eats him up and spits him out.

[Lefty]

It's no foregone conclusion that Haye beats Valuev.

Atleast Herbie Hide fought Vitali and Bowe.

Haye on the other hand fought Barrett.................

[meetthefeebles]

Oh, really? Right now he has a win over friggin' Monte Barrett plus having bitched out of two fight against the Klitschko brothers. That´s all.

Besides his trashtalk he has zero resume whatsoever at heavyweight and not many people believe he can take a meaningful Klitschko punch.

The Klitschkos have nothing to win by beating a "small guy" like him still they gave him a shot twice. If they knock him out which is exactly what everybody expects they wont got any credit for that. Haye only talked himself into the fight by being a complete asshole and then bitched out.

How fukkin' lame is that?

The only thing thats more annoying than him are the excuses made up by his bandwagoners.

Make no mistake, I would have rooted for him against the brothers but now I hope Valuev eats him up and spits him out.

I'd ask again, though. Why is this held against Haye with such vehermence but not against ANY other champion who moves up a weight division. Why, for example, was no-one complaining when Manny Pac got an instant shot at Hatton despite clearly having 'no resume' at 140. Or why was Calzaghe given shit for NOT moving up to fight the champs at 175? When when he did and fought Hopkins, why did no-one question his immediate right to fight a divisional champion (albeit the 'ring' champ)?

I could literally list DOZENS of comparable situations and no-one has yet to provide me with anything like an adequate answer to this simple question.

Why the fuck does Haye have to 'get in line' and 'build a resume' when everyone else gets passes?

MTF :555:

[meetthefeebles]

It's no foregone conclusion that Haye beats Valuev.

Atleast Herbie Hide fought Vitali and Bowe.

Haye on the other hand fought Barrett.................

You have an unhealthy obsession with Haye having fought Barrett. Let it go man, it'll do you good...

[Haye also fough Tomas Bonin at HW a while back. You knew that, of course...]

MTF :mex:

[Lefty]

You have an unhealthy obsession with Haye having fought Barrett. Let it go man, it'll do you good...

[Haye also fough Tomas Bonin at HW a while back. You knew that, of course...]

MTF :mex:


yes I did, :wink7:
but for some reason, I just can't bring myself to mention that all time classic heavy eliminator fight.

[Lefty]

I'd ask again, though. Why is this held against Haye with such vehermence but not against ANY other champion who moves up a weight division. Why, for example, was no-one complaining when Manny Pac got an instant shot at Hatton despite clearly having 'no resume' at 140. Or why was Calzaghe given shit for NOT moving up to fight the champs at 175? When when he did and fought Hopkins, why did no-one question his immediate right to fight a divisional champion (albeit the 'ring' champ)?

I could literally list DOZENS of comparable situations and no-one has yet to provide me with anything like an adequate answer to this simple question.

Why the fuck does Haye have to 'get in line' and 'build a resume' when everyone else gets passes?

MTF :555:


Humm, quality of the fighter?.


Guess the odd one out,

Manny, Calzaghe, Haye.

This question does not count towards your IQ total,

Please begin.

[meetthefeebles]

yes I did, :wink7:
but for some reason, I just can't bring myself to mention that all time classic heavy eliminator fight.

Hmmm, but you CAN regularly find the time to bring up the monumental Barrett battle? It's just that if I was going to mock Haye's 'HW campaign' to date, it's the Bonin shambles I'd pick before the Barrett fight which clearly rankles with you so much.

Of course, none of that matters. You just hate David Haye

MTF :haha:

[meetthefeebles]

Humm, quality of the fighter?.


Guess the odd one out,

Manny, Calzaghe, Haye.

This question does not count towards your IQ total,

Please begin.

You what?

Okay then:

Hatton vs Collazo (first fight at WW for a title)

Khan vs Kotelnik (dude got ICED outta 135, moved up and got an immediate title fight)

Taylor vs Froch (Taylor had TWO fights above 160 and even lost one but then got a title shot)

This could literally go on all night. I'm just picking stuff off the top of my head here. You try and tell me that Khan was more deserving of a shot that Haye is, and, when you say that he isn't, please show me your veherment protests as posted at the time.

You have not been charged for this call...

MTF :dance:

[Lefty]

Hmmm, but you CAN regularly find the time to bring up the monumental Barrett battle? It's just that if I was going to mock Haye's 'HW campaign' to date, it's the Bonin shambles I'd pick before the Barrett fight which clearly rankles with you so much.

Of course, none of that matters. You just hate David Haye

MTF :haha:

That's because Barrett was the 'great heavyweight' that bust the bubble of the undefeated and magnificent Tye Fields, who was undoutedly the secret answer to untying the Gordian knot that would lead to the defeating of Wlad and Vitali Klitchko.

All in one night, seeing their all so shit.

[Lefty]

You what?

Okay then:

Hatton vs Collazo (first fight at WW for a title)

Khan vs Kotelnik (dude got ICED outta 135, moved up and got an immediate title fight)

Taylor vs Froch (Taylor had TWO fights above 160 and even lost one but then got a title shot)

This could literally go on all night. I'm just picking stuff off the top of my head here. You try and tell me that Khan was more deserving of a shot that Haye is, and, when you say that he isn't, please show me your veherment protests as posted at the time.

You have not been charged for this call...

MTF :dance:
Righy oh, I know this has to get harder later.

Hatton, quality fighter, cleaned out the lt welter division, (don't mention Witter, Please)

Khan, Warrens little boy. Kotelin crap.

Taylor beat Hopkins twice, Hopkins very good still, at light heavy.

Got anymore? I'm gonna have to reverse charges if this carries on

[meetthefeebles]

Hatton, quality fighter, cleaned out the lt welter division, (don't mention Witter, Please)False

Dude, Hatton took the Collazo fight immediately after the Tzsyu fight. He hadn't cleaned out shit. He had a trillion 140 defences of his WBU title (stop laughing at the back) and then moved up to immediately fight for the title after shocking Tszyu as a 4-1 dog.

Cleaned out 140 indeed.

If Hatton had 'cleaned out' 140 at the time he moved up v Collzao (one title fight, one belt) what has Haye done at 200? Three belts, two unification fights and the consensus divisional number one by a mile.


Khan, Warrens little boy. Kotelin crap.What does this have to do with anything? Why did Khan get a pass to move up having achieved NOTHING at 135 whilst Haye gets shit having 'cleaned out' 200 before moving up?


Taylor beat Hopkins twice, Hopkins very good still, at light heavy.Those fights were ancient history. Taylor lost his titles brutally to Pavlik then ran up to 168 only for Pavlik to follow him there and beat him again. Taylor then beat the remains of Jeff Lacy :lol: and got a title shot. Based on what? His MW titles? He lost those. His Hopkins wins? Years ago and siputed anyway. His 'resume at 168'? 1-1 against a blown up MW and a busted flush.

Dude, you can dodge and weave and pull all kinds of shit. But you are wrong and you know it.

MTF

[Lefty]

Hatton beating Zoo was the big, BIG factor, He really established himself with that fight,
Made a big name for himself on that fight., Also Collazo was not the recognised best at welter, a good stepping stone to test the waters. Untill he fought him!.

Warren- Khans promoter = fixes things.
Haye - self promoted(hayemaker promotions) = deals with no money.
Ehem.....bad back.

Hopkins, legend/ best lt heavy = taylor riding on his tailcoat.
If Tylor had not beaten Hopkins, the fight would probably not have happened.

[Attraction]

Hatton beating Zoo was the big, BIG factor, He really established himself with that fight,
Made a big name for himself on that fight., Also Collazo was not the recognised best at welter, a good stepping stone to test the waters. Untill he fought him!.

Warren- Khans promoter = fixes things.
Haye - self promoted(hayemaker promotions) = deals with no money.
Ehem.....bad back.

Hopkins, legend/ best lt heavy = taylor riding on his tailcoat.
If Tylor had not beaten Hopkins, the fight would probably not have happened.

Good post, I was going to post something similar.

[meetthefeebles]

Hatton beating Zoo was the big, BIG factor, He really established himself with that fight,
Made a big name for himself on that fight., Also Collazo was not the recognised best at welter, a good stepping stone to test the waters. Untill he fought him!.

What does that have to do with Hatton apparently 'cleaning out' the division? That is what you said he did. How did he 'clean out' the division with one fight and, by your friend Attraction's reckoning, 40 fights vs bums because he was scared of Witter?

Was Haye not 'established' at 200 after the Mormeck fight? Or the unification vs Enzo Macc?

Cut the bullshit. Hatton got the Collzao fight because he just became the lineal 140 champion and, as such, he is entitled to step up and challenge the 147 champs.

Why doesn't Haye have this right?


Warren- Khans promoter = fixes things.
Haye - self promoted(hayemaker promotions) = deals with no money.
Ehem.....bad back.

This is not in doubt but again where was the universal fury at Werren's machinations? Where was YOUR repeated posts about Khan's complete undeserved title shot? Where was Attraction's similar posts for that matter?

Again, lets cut the shit. So Werren fixes things and gets his man an undeserved shot. Quell surprise. Why then does Khan get a pass from messageboards but Haye gets shit?


Hopkins, legend/ best lt heavy = taylor riding on his tailcoat.
If Tylor had not beaten Hopkins, the fight would probably not have happened.

So a guy gets a title shot based simply on his controversial wins against a legend years ago? This is more deserving than a current unified champion moving up in weight?

I'm done with this conversation. It's become extremely tiresome. Haye haters haven't a leg to stand on yet insist on this banal nonsense. More fool you guys

MTF

[Lefty]

What does that have to do with Hatton apparently 'cleaning out' the division? That is what you said he did. How did he 'clean out' the division with one fight and, by your friend Attraction's reckoning, 40 fights vs bums because he was scared of Witter?

Was Haye not 'established' at 200 after the Mormeck fight? Or the unification vs Enzo Macc?

Cut the bullshit. Hatton got the Collzao fight because he just became the lineal 140 champion and, as such, he is entitled to step up and challenge the 147 champs.

Why doesn't Haye have this right?



This is not in doubt but again where was the universal fury at Werren's machinations? Where was YOUR repeated posts about Khan's complete undeserved title shot? Where was Attraction's similar posts for that matter?

Again, lets cut the shit. So Werren fixes things and gets his man an undeserved shot. Quell surprise. Why then does Khan get a pass from messageboards but Haye gets shit?



So a guy gets a title shot based simply on his controversial wins against a legend years ago? This is more deserving than a current unified champion moving up in weight?

I'm done with this conversation. It's become extremely tiresome. Haye haters haven't a leg to stand on yet insist on this banal nonsense. More fool you guys

MTF


You'll be back.

I know it.:wink7: :funny:

[ldlamb]

Valuev is horrible. He was outworked by a 45 year old Holyfield for god sake. Haye whips him.

[Michael Matos]

Valuev is horrible. He was outworked by a 45 year old Holyfield for god sake. Haye whips him.

Indeed.

[Attraction]

will david "deron" haye get the decision though?

[Michael Matos]

David Haye was the champion of a division that is one pound removed from the heavyweight division, his pedigree/resume in the heavyweight division and whether it warrants him a title shot is totally irrelevent, the man is a champion and wishes to compete with his peers because that is what Haye and Klitchko's/Valuev are they are peers. Haye talks shit and is disrespectful so he doesn't deserve at title shot? Boxing is a mans game, it's not a game for pussies, when I hear a fighter talk about I'm not fighting him because he disrespected me by doing this that or the other then I'm sorry Mr. Fighter but thats a pussy move and if you want to act like a little pussy bitch then as a fan that's how I'm going to treat you. Maybe it's because I came from an era where being disrespected was a reason to fight not a reason to avoid one. An era where I saw Joe Frazier seethe and translate that hatred into performance, an era when Benny " Kid" Paret called Emile Griffith a faggot and paid for it with his life less than 24 hours later such was the depth of Griffith's response to the diss. Boxing is a mans game.

Whats the old saying, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", well don't tell me you are a fighter and a champion and then say you don't want to or aren't going to fight someone because they in one way or the other hurt your feelings because I have to question your integrity, your balls, your desire, yur heart, I have to question all the things that prevent someone from being great., but above all else ?I have to ask that one question thats going to ruin our fan/fighter relationship and that question is "Are you bullshitting me"? Are you taking me for a ride are you really serious about the sport you participate in, because I'm really serious about the sport I'm watching. I deem you champion I put my faith in you to take on all-comers, to represent me, to represent the sport, thats what you signed up for thats what you said you do. So why aren't you doing it?

Recently on this board the mention of these two names in the same sentence leads down a rocky road however it is no coincidence that Manny Pacquiao and Jaun Marquez are the two best fighters in the world, they fight anybody. Boxing is a mans game, they know the drill. In the Klitchko's-Haye debacle there are no winners, just losers. At least one of them took a small step towards redemption and progress but the other two keep bitching and playing the victim, pandering to their little audience who hang on their every word and preach the babble ad nauseum. An army of bitches protecting the queens. Boxing has and always will work best when it is broken down to it's lowest common denominator, it works the worst or ceases to function all together when a brand of elitism is practiced and one cannot deny that the heavyweight division is working the worst it ever has and some will contend that it has ceased to function altogether. Boxing is a mans game and thats the price you pay when queen's try to do a King's job.

[witton_lane]

David Haye was the champion of a division that is one pound removed from the heavyweight division, his pedigree/resume in the heavyweight division and whether it warrants him a title shot is totally irrelevent, the man is a champion and wishes to compete with his peers because that is what Haye and Klitchko's/Valuev are they are peers. Haye talks shit and is disrespectful so he doesn't deserve at title shot? Boxing is a mans game, it's not a game for pussies, when I hear a fighter talk about I'm not fighting him because he disrespected me by doing this that or the other then I'm sorry Mr. Fighter but thats a pussy move and if you want to act like a little pussy bitch then as a fan that's how I'm going to treat you. Maybe it's because I came from an era where being disrespected was a reason to fight not a reason to avoid one. An era where I saw Joe Frazier seethe and translate that hatred into performance, an era when Benny " Kid" Paret called Emile Griffith a faggot and paid for it with his life less than 24 hours later such was the depth of Griffith's response to the diss. Boxing is a mans game.

Whats the old saying, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", well don't tell me you are a fighter and a champion and then say you don't want to or aren't going to fight someone because they in one way or the other hurt your feelings because I have to question your integrity, your balls, your desire, yur heart, I have to question all the things that prevent someone from being great., but above all else ?I have to ask that one question thats going to ruin our fan/fighter relationship and that question is "Are you bullshitting me"? Are you taking me for a ride are you really serious about the sport you participate in, because I'm really serious about the sport I'm watching. I deem you champion I put my faith in you to take on all-comers, to represent me, to represent the sport, thats what you signed up for thats what you said you do. So why aren't you doing it?

Recently on this board the mention of these two names in the same sentence leads down a rocky road however it is no coincidence that Manny Pacquiao and Jaun Marquez are the two best fighters in the world, they fight anybody. Boxing is a mans game, they know the drill. In the Klitchko's-Haye debacle there are no winners, just losers. At least one of them took a small step towards redemption and progress but the other two keep bitching and playing the victim, pandering to their little audience who hang on their every word and preach the babble ad nauseum. An army of bitches protecting the queens. Boxing has and always will work best when it is broken down to it's lowest common denominator, it works the worst or ceases to function all together when a brand of elitism is practiced and one cannot deny that the heavyweight division is working the worst it ever has and some will contend that it has ceased to function altogether. Boxing is a mans game and thats the price you pay when queen's try to do a King's job.

One of the best posts I've ever read, thanks for that Matos :thumb:

As a sidenote - I remember Vitaly Klitschko trash-talking his way into getting Lewis to agree to a rematch on live TV after their first fight, I also remember him remonstrating with Sam Peter after he beat him. Vitaly Klitschko is one of the most classless pieces of shit I've ever seen if I'm honest about it, his histrionics over the Haye T-shirt are very amusing considering his own actions in the past. His brother normally behaves with class too but for some reason he's gone all Rita Hayworth over Hayes antics too, for the first time ever he seemed rattled. Probably for good reason....they both like stiffs to stand square in front of them, stiffs that eat jabs and right hands and that have zero power or who are shot to shit.

Haye doesn't fit the bill there I guess, hence the bitch contracts. Sure as you say the Klit lovers will spout their bullshit but we all know what happens when you put a Klitschko in the ring with a guy that dares to hit back hard and fast....they fold like the bullies that they are.

[Ringside]

David Haye was the champion of a division that is one pound removed from the heavyweight division, his pedigree/resume in the heavyweight division and whether it warrants him a title shot is totally irrelevent, the man is a champion and wishes to compete with his peers because that is what Haye and Klitchko's/Valuev are they are peers. Haye talks shit and is disrespectful so he doesn't deserve at title shot? Boxing is a mans game, it's not a game for pussies, when I hear a fighter talk about I'm not fighting him because he disrespected me by doing this that or the other then I'm sorry Mr. Fighter but thats a pussy move and if you want to act like a little pussy bitch then as a fan that's how I'm going to treat you. Maybe it's because I came from an era where being disrespected was a reason to fight not a reason to avoid one. An era where I saw Joe Frazier seethe and translate that hatred into performance, an era when Benny " Kid" Paret called Emile Griffith a faggot and paid for it with his life less than 24 hours later such was the depth of Griffith's response to the diss. Boxing is a mans game.

Whats the old saying, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", well don't tell me you are a fighter and a champion and then say you don't want to or aren't going to fight someone because they in one way or the other hurt your feelings because I have to question your integrity, your balls, your desire, yur heart, I have to question all the things that prevent someone from being great., but above all else ?I have to ask that one question thats going to ruin our fan/fighter relationship and that question is "Are you bullshitting me"? Are you taking me for a ride are you really serious about the sport you participate in, because I'm really serious about the sport I'm watching. I deem you champion I put my faith in you to take on all-comers, to represent me, to represent the sport, thats what you signed up for thats what you said you do. So why aren't you doing it?

Recently on this board the mention of these two names in the same sentence leads down a rocky road however it is no coincidence that Manny Pacquiao and Jaun Marquez are the two best fighters in the world, they fight anybody. Boxing is a mans game, they know the drill. In the Klitchko's-Haye debacle there are no winners, just losers. At least one of them took a small step towards redemption and progress but the other two keep bitching and playing the victim, pandering to their little audience who hang on their every word and preach the babble ad nauseum. An army of bitches protecting the queens. Boxing has and always will work best when it is broken down to it's lowest common denominator, it works the worst or ceases to function all together when a brand of elitism is practiced and one cannot deny that the heavyweight division is working the worst it ever has and some will contend that it has ceased to function altogether. Boxing is a mans game and thats the price you pay when queen's try to do a King's job.

Great post. Vitali clearly does not want to fight and is nursing his injuries for years and years now..he made that clear backing out of Rahman fight after all the publicity and buildup.they eyeballed each other in AC for about 4 minuites at a promo until they were broken apart and I think Rahman got into Vitalis head...and his brother Wladimer also pawned his way at the Garden last I saw him with a guy way smaller and very undetermined to do much to Wladimer..as disgraceful a fight as I have ever attended..you got it right..lets us see them "leave it all in the ring" as we old school fans say..Ringo

[Ringside]

David Haye was the champion of a division that is one pound removed from the heavyweight division, his pedigree/resume in the heavyweight division and whether it warrants him a title shot is totally irrelevent, the man is a champion and wishes to compete with his peers because that is what Haye and Klitchko's/Valuev are they are peers. Haye talks shit and is disrespectful so he doesn't deserve at title shot? Boxing is a mans game, it's not a game for pussies, when I hear a fighter talk about I'm not fighting him because he disrespected me by doing this that or the other then I'm sorry Mr. Fighter but thats a pussy move and if you want to act like a little pussy bitch then as a fan that's how I'm going to treat you. Maybe it's because I came from an era where being disrespected was a reason to fight not a reason to avoid one. An era where I saw Joe Frazier seethe and translate that hatred into performance, an era when Benny " Kid" Paret called Emile Griffith a faggot and paid for it with his life less than 24 hours later such was the depth of Griffith's response to the diss. Boxing is a mans game.

Whats the old saying, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", well don't tell me you are a fighter and a champion and then say you don't want to or aren't going to fight someone because they in one way or the other hurt your feelings because I have to question your integrity, your balls, your desire, yur heart, I have to question all the things that prevent someone from being great., but above all else ?I have to ask that one question thats going to ruin our fan/fighter relationship and that question is "Are you bullshitting me"? Are you taking me for a ride are you really serious about the sport you participate in, because I'm really serious about the sport I'm watching. I deem you champion I put my faith in you to take on all-comers, to represent me, to represent the sport, thats what you signed up for thats what you said you do. So why aren't you doing it?

Recently on this board the mention of these two names in the same sentence leads down a rocky road however it is no coincidence that Manny Pacquiao and Jaun Marquez are the two best fighters in the world, they fight anybody. Boxing is a mans game, they know the drill. In the Klitchko's-Haye debacle there are no winners, just losers. At least one of them took a small step towards redemption and progress but the other two keep bitching and playing the victim, pandering to their little audience who hang on their every word and preach the babble ad nauseum. An army of bitches protecting the queens. Boxing has and always will work best when it is broken down to it's lowest common denominator, it works the worst or ceases to function all together when a brand of elitism is practiced and one cannot deny that the heavyweight division is working the worst it ever has and some will contend that it has ceased to function altogether. Boxing is a mans game and thats the price you pay when queen's try to do a King's job.

Delete

[meetthefeebles]

David Haye was the champion of a division that is one pound removed from the heavyweight division, his pedigree/resume in the heavyweight division and whether it warrants him a title shot is totally irrelevent, the man is a champion and wishes to compete with his peers because that is what Haye and Klitchko's/Valuev are they are peers. Haye talks shit and is disrespectful so he doesn't deserve at title shot? Boxing is a mans game, it's not a game for pussies, when I hear a fighter talk about I'm not fighting him because he disrespected me by doing this that or the other then I'm sorry Mr. Fighter but thats a pussy move and if you want to act like a little pussy bitch then as a fan that's how I'm going to treat you. Maybe it's because I came from an era where being disrespected was a reason to fight not a reason to avoid one. An era where I saw Joe Frazier seethe and translate that hatred into performance, an era when Benny " Kid" Paret called Emile Griffith a faggot and paid for it with his life less than 24 hours later such was the depth of Griffith's response to the diss. Boxing is a mans game.

Whats the old saying, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", well don't tell me you are a fighter and a champion and then say you don't want to or aren't going to fight someone because they in one way or the other hurt your feelings because I have to question your integrity, your balls, your desire, yur heart, I have to question all the things that prevent someone from being great., but above all else ?I have to ask that one question thats going to ruin our fan/fighter relationship and that question is "Are you bullshitting me"? Are you taking me for a ride are you really serious about the sport you participate in, because I'm really serious about the sport I'm watching. I deem you champion I put my faith in you to take on all-comers, to represent me, to represent the sport, thats what you signed up for thats what you said you do. So why aren't you doing it?

Recently on this board the mention of these two names in the same sentence leads down a rocky road however it is no coincidence that Manny Pacquiao and Jaun Marquez are the two best fighters in the world, they fight anybody. Boxing is a mans game, they know the drill. In the Klitchko's-Haye debacle there are no winners, just losers. At least one of them took a small step towards redemption and progress but the other two keep bitching and playing the victim, pandering to their little audience who hang on their every word and preach the babble ad nauseum. An army of bitches protecting the queens. Boxing has and always will work best when it is broken down to it's lowest common denominator, it works the worst or ceases to function all together when a brand of elitism is practiced and one cannot deny that the heavyweight division is working the worst it ever has and some will contend that it has ceased to function altogether. Boxing is a mans game and thats the price you pay when queen's try to do a King's job.

Absolutely. Good post... :clappy:

I gave up trying to argue these simple points because the haters are wrapped up in a world of pure, unadulterated nonsense.

MTF

[Lefty]

David Haye was the champion of a division that is one pound removed from the heavyweight division, his pedigree/resume in the heavyweight division and whether it warrants him a title shot is totally irrelevent, the man is a champion and wishes to compete with his peers because that is what Haye and Klitchko's/Valuev are they are peers. Haye talks shit and is disrespectful so he doesn't deserve at title shot? Boxing is a mans game, it's not a game for pussies, when I hear a fighter talk about I'm not fighting him because he disrespected me by doing this that or the other then I'm sorry Mr. Fighter but thats a pussy move and if you want to act like a little pussy bitch then as a fan that's how I'm going to treat you. Maybe it's because I came from an era where being disrespected was a reason to fight not a reason to avoid one. An era where I saw Joe Frazier seethe and translate that hatred into performance, an era when Benny " Kid" Paret called Emile Griffith a faggot and paid for it with his life less than 24 hours later such was the depth of Griffith's response to the diss. Boxing is a mans game.

Whats the old saying, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", well don't tell me you are a fighter and a champion and then say you don't want to or aren't going to fight someone because they in one way or the other hurt your feelings because I have to question your integrity, your balls, your desire, yur heart, I have to question all the things that prevent someone from being great., but above all else ?I have to ask that one question thats going to ruin our fan/fighter relationship and that question is "Are you bullshitting me"? Are you taking me for a ride are you really serious about the sport you participate in, because I'm really serious about the sport I'm watching. I deem you champion I put my faith in you to take on all-comers, to represent me, to represent the sport, thats what you signed up for thats what you said you do. So why aren't you doing it?

Recently on this board the mention of these two names in the same sentence leads down a rocky road however it is no coincidence that Manny Pacquiao and Jaun Marquez are the two best fighters in the world, they fight anybody. Boxing is a mans game, they know the drill. In the Klitchko's-Haye debacle there are no winners, just losers. At least one of them took a small step towards redemption and progress but the other two keep bitching and playing the victim, pandering to their little audience who hang on their every word and preach the babble ad nauseum. An army of bitches protecting the queens. Boxing has and always will work best when it is broken down to it's lowest common denominator, it works the worst or ceases to function all together when a brand of elitism is practiced and one cannot deny that the heavyweight division is working the worst it ever has and some will contend that it has ceased to function altogether. Boxing is a mans game and thats the price you pay when queen's try to do a King's job.


Full of vim and verve, and very idealistic, but not really current with the present day.

I wish the clock could be turned back too.

[Lefty]

Absolutely. Good post... :clappy:

I gave up trying to argue these simple points because the haters are wrapped up in a world of pure, unadulterated nonsense.

MTF


Knew you'd be back. :funny:

[ironhammer444]

One of the best posts I've ever read, thanks for that Matos :thumb:

As a sidenote - I remember Vitaly Klitschko trash-talking his way into getting Lewis to agree to a rematch on live TV after their first fight, I also remember him remonstrating with Sam Peter after he beat him. Vitaly Klitschko is one of the most classless pieces of shit I've ever seen if I'm honest about it, his histrionics over the Haye T-shirt are very amusing considering his own actions in the past. His brother normally behaves with class too but for some reason he's gone all Rita Hayworth over Hayes antics too, for the first time ever he seemed rattled. Probably for good reason....they both like stiffs to stand square in front of them, stiffs that eat jabs and right hands and that have zero power or who are shot to shit.

Haye doesn't fit the bill there I guess, hence the bitch contracts. Sure as you say the Klit lovers will spout their bullshit but we all know what happens when you put a Klitschko in the ring with a guy that dares to hit back hard and fast....they fold like the bullies that they are.
Go to youtube and play living on a thin line by the Kinks. It it explains this British idiots remarks. David Gaye. laughatyou