Oscar De la hoya: "Top Rank is protecting Pacquiao!" WTF?

[BKING]

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content5174.html

According to Oscar, Top Rank is protecting Pacquiao? :lol:

Sounds like somebody is bitter at Top Rank and Pacquiao for choosing Cotto over Mosley. Arum has certainly protected certain fighters, but Pacquiao has not been one of them. Pacquiao just defeated three of Golden Boy's top fighters in his last four fights - including Oscar (substantial betting favorite going into the fight), whom he beat the dog shit out of. Let's be real here, whether it's Cotto or Mosley, Pacquiao is in a no win situation regardless of which guy he chooses. If he fights Mosley, and beats Mosley impressively, he fought another 36 year old who is washed up and got old over night and people will criticize Pacquiao the same way they did after the ODLH fight. That's why I believe Top Rank and Pacquiao have selected Cotto (the younger guy) over Mosley, plus the fact that Cotto has a win over Mosley. However, if Pacquiao beats Cotto impressively, people are going to say that Margarito ruined Cotto and coming down to a catch weight to fight Pacquiao drained Cotto.

In any case, Oscar needs to put his foot in his mouth and be really careful of what he says, because sometimes he sounds stupid.

[edder]

either of them will beat pacquiao in my opinion they hit hard .. and if mosley fights him then i think pacman retires :] thats if mosley fights like he fought vs margarito..

[O-Dogg33]

Oscar is just doing his job as a promoter. He's trying to get his fighter and friend a big fight he deserves. We're not used to hearing DLH have to resort to this cause he was the one always being called out so it sounds odd. I don't think Top Rank is protecting Pacquaio I just think they're looking for the best deal for their company. Pacquiao doesn't need to be protected right now he's doing just fine beating up people.

[BKING]

Oscar is just doing his job as a promoter. He's trying to get his fighter and friend a big fight he deserves. We're not used to hearing DLH have to resort to this cause he was the one always being called out so it sounds odd. I don't think Top Rank is protecting Pacquaio I just think they're looking for the best deal for their company. Pacquiao doesn't need to be protected right now he's doing just fine beating up people.

That's how I see it. Protected is the last adjective that comes to mind when I think of Manny Pacquiao. Oscar is just being a big cry baby about Pacquiao going after Cotto instead of Mosley (who is his fighter). If Oscar really wanted a big fight for Mosley, then he should've put Mosley against Mayweather (instead of Marquez) when he had the chance. Oscar should be relieved that Pacquiao is taking a break from kicking the shit out of the fighters in his stable. :lol: Pacquiao already defeated three Golden Boy fighters; Oscar should not be so anxious to get a 4th one of his fighters whipped. :whip:

[Rebel]

In hindsight, since the Marquez scare, he's taken on the biggest fights out there but not the most dangerous. Therefore, I can see where Golden Boy is coming from.

At lightweight, he fought fodder in Diaz.

At welterweight, he fought the corpse of DLH.

At junior welterweight, he destroyed Hatton, a fighter who has been on a rapid slide since Mayweather bashed him.

Cotto is actually the most dangerous opponent he'll have faced in sometime, but he's also on the way down. Cotto is still much better than the last 3 Pac opponents, IMO. I won't criticize him if this fight happens.

However, if he defeats Cotto, he has to fight Mosley for the real welterweight championship, and the winner of that fight should face the winner of Mayweather/Marquez, which will more than likely be Mayweather.

If he loses any of those fights, he can always go back down to 140 and face Marquez to attempt to clean up that controversy.

[Valdosta]

Oscar is pretty much the ultimate bullshitter and a fake.

[Valdosta]

However, if he defeats Cotto, he has to fight Mosley for the real welterweight championship, and the winner of that fight should face the winner of Mayweather/Marquez, which will more than likely be Mayweather.


There is no "real" champion at 147, several fighters have claims and they are legit.

[O-Dogg33]

There is no "real" champion at 147, several fighters have claims and they are legit.

Mosley should be the recognized champ IMO. Margarito was #1, Cotto #2, and Mosley #3. The Ring should have recognized the Mosley-Margarito fight as a championship fight since Margarito had already defeated Cotto.

[Rebel]

There is no "real" champion at 147, several fighters have claims and they are legit.
Like who?

I think Mosley has the best claim right now.

I had him Drawing against a PRIME Cotto, and he destroyed Cotto's conqueror.

Cotto drew with Mosley in my eyes, got stopped by Margarito, and then barely scraped by Clottey.

Clottey can't win a big fight.

Williams hasn't fought at WW in awhile.

Mayweather and Pacquiao have never beaten a legit top WW.

Again, no one has a stronger claim than Mosley.

[Valdosta]

Mosley lost to Cotto and did so very clearly. He also beat Clottey. Sorry but Cotto has every bit the claim that Mosley does.

[Rebel]

Mosley lost to Cotto and did so very clearly. He also beat Clottey. Sorry but Cotto has every bit the claim that Mosley does.
No, he doesn't.

I didn't think Cotto beat Mosley and Clottey very clearly. Both fights are extremely debatable.

And you can't just forget about Cotto's KO loss to Margarito.

[neo_wolf]

Like BKING said, if Oscar really cared about giving his so called Friend Mosley a big fight then he should have given him Mayweather, im sure he couldve but he didnt.

[Rebel]

Like BKING said, if Oscar really cared about giving his so called Friend Mosley a big fight then he should have given him Mayweather, im sure he couldve but he didnt.
Mayweather didn't want to fight Mosley. He decided to go the easier route and take on Marquez.

[Valdosta]

Oh and Floyd did beat the linear champion but he retired so I am not sure about his claim. Cotto on the other hand has a good claim considering he beat Mosley.

[Rebel]

Oh and Floyd did beat the linear champion but he retired so I am not sure about his claim. Cotto on the other hand has a good claim considering he beat Mosley.
Mosley has a better claim because he beat the guy that owned Cotto and many people feel he beat Cotto.

Baldomir was shit.

[Valdosta]

No, he doesn't.

I didn't think Cotto beat Mosley and Clottey very clearly. Both fights are extremely debatable.

And you can't just forget about Cotto's KO loss to Margarito.

Dig it up, I gave my scorecard on Mosley-Cotto round by round. Fact is he won the fight. You can't throw out the head to head fight either. In fact it's the tie breaker in this case. :thumb:

[neo_wolf]

Mosley lost to Cotto and did so very clearly. He also beat Clottey. Sorry but Cotto has every bit the claim that Mosley does.



Agreed.

And hey, we all know that Mosley wanted to fight Mayweather more than anyone, but his friend didnt give him the fight, he gave it to Marquez.
Im pretty sure Mosley is more upset at not fighting Floyd.

[Valdosta]

Mosley has a better claim because he beat the guy that owned Cotto and many people feel he beat Cotto.



Since when? Sounds like revising history to me. That decision was absolutely NOT controversial. It was clear.

[Rebel]

Dig it up, I gave my scorecard on Mosley-Cotto round by round. Fact is he won the fight. You can't throw out the head to head fight either. In fact it's the tie breaker in this case. :thumb:
You should know the judges don't always get it right. Their decision doesn't make it a fact.

If you're going by the man-that-beat-the-man, Mosley wins because he beat Margarito after Margarito destroyed Cotto.

[Rebel]

Since when? Sounds like revising history to me. That decision was absolutely NOT controversial. It was clear.
I didn't think so and I'm not alone.

[Valdosta]

I didn't think so and I'm not alone.

Not alone, big deal. You are in the vast minority so what.

[Valdosta]

You should know the judges don't always get it right. Their decision doesn't make it a fact.

If you're going by the man-that-beat-the-man, Mosley wins because he beat Margarito after Margarito destroyed Cotto.

Yeah but to bad Cotto had already beaten Mosley. The judges got it right in this case and it wasn't a controversial decision. Just because a small minority thinks it could have been a draw or Mosley win doesn't make it so.

[Rebel]

Yeah but to bad Cotto had already beaten Mosley. The judges got it right in this case and it wasn't a controversial decision. Just because a small minority thinks it could have been a draw or Mosley win doesn't make it so.
And it didn't make a difference that the bout took place MSG (Cotto's 2nd backyard) with Arum around?

The fact that most of the judges still had it 7-5 says a lot about that fight.

Anywhere neutral and you have a SD either way or more likely a DRAW.

I suggest you watch that fight without sound.

[Valdosta]

And it didn't make a difference that the bout took place MSG (Cotto's 2nd backyard) with Arum around?

The fact that most of the judges still had it 7-5 says a lot about that fight.

Anywhere neutral and you have a SD either way or more likely a DRAW.

I suggest you watch that fight without sound.

Funny I gave a RBR where is yours? I really don't care where the fight was held at. The truth is Mosley has ALWAYS gotten the benefit of the doubt from the judges. In this case he still lost. At the end of the day Cotto beat Mosley and most people agreed with the decision.

[BKING]

In my book, Shane Mosley is the welterweight champion of the world.

I thought Cotto vs. Mosley was a very close fight. I had it 6-6. Could've been 7-5 for Cotto, but not much more than that. This was a prime, undefeated Cotto that Mosley was fighting at the time.

Paul Williams had moved up in weight after destroying Quintana in their rematch. Which left Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley as the top three contenders at WW and the WW championship was VACANT.

Margarito beat Cotto, loaded gloves or not, in a fight between the #1 and #2 guy at WW at the time. Margarito became the WW champ in many people's eyes by defeating Cotto.

When Margarito fought Mosley, that was a fight between the WW champ of the world and the #3 guy in Shane Mosley. Mosley dominated and knocked out Margarito!

Cotto beat Mosley by a close dec (this fight will be two years old in November).
Margarito stopped Cotto.
Mosley beat the shit out of Margarito and knocked him out - this was the most RECENT result as well as the most CLEAR CUT win out of all of these results.

Going both by lineage and what most recently happened, Mosley deserves recognition as the WW champion of the world! :clappy:

[Valdosta]

Lineage? Lineage had nothing to do with Paul Williams or Antonio Margarito. People can criticize Floyd all they want but the lineage actually goes through him. Cotto > Mosley it was proven in the ring. If Mosley wants to be the true champ at 147 he needs to beat Cotto.

[BKING]

I'm talking about the lineage following Floyd's retirement.

When Floyd retired in May 2008, the WW title became VACANT.

From that point on, the sequence of events were as follows:

*Paul Williams KO1 Carlos Quintana. Williams leaves WW division shortly thereafter.
*Antonio Margarito (#1) TKO11 Miguel Cotto (#2). Margarito becomes WW champ, as is supposed to happen when the #1 and #2 guys face each other in a division where the title is vacant.

Shane Mosley (#3) KO10 Antonio Margarito (THE CHAMP). Mosley becomes the WW Champion.

IMO, it's not Mosley who has to fight Cotto if he wants to become the Champ.
It's Cotto who has to fight Mosley if he wants to win the Championship.

Cotto lost to Margarito more recently than he beat Mosley.
Mosley dominated Margarito much more recently than he lost to Cotto.

[O-Dogg33]

Lineage? Lineage had nothing to do with Paul Williams or Antonio Margarito. People can criticize Floyd all they want but the lineage actually goes through him. Cotto > Mosley it was proven in the ring. If Mosley wants to be the true champ at 147 he needs to beat Cotto.

Floyd lost all claim he had when he "retired". Now that his brokeass his back he's got to get back in line and prove himself. Its not like any of his WW wins are even significant anymore anyway. And Paul Williams is in the same boat. He hasn't fought WW in too long so he's been timed out as well. All roads lead to Mosley.

[O-Dogg33]

Agreed.

And hey, we all know that Mosley wanted to fight Mayweather more than anyone, but his friend didnt give him the fight, he gave it to Marquez.
Im pretty sure Mosley is more upset at not fighting Floyd.

Like its up to Oscar who Mayweather fights. If he had control over that brat then they would have fought last September instead of Oscar fighting Pacquiao. Mayweather is scared of Mosley, he won't fight him until Mosley is clearly beatable. GBP gave Marquez to Mayweather in order to make some money.

[BKING]

Floyd lost all claim he had when he "retired". Now that his brokeass his back he's got to get back in line and prove himself. Its not like any of his WW wins are even significant anymore anyway. And Paul Williams is in the same boat. He hasn't fought WW in too long so he's been timed out as well. All roads lead to Mosley.

Thank you. Exactly right, Floyd retired. You can't expect a guy to remain as universally recognized champion of a division for 100 years after he retires! LOL. We all know how great and undefeated Floyd is, LOL, but when a champion retires, the #1 and #2 guy in that division are eventually going to face each other to fill the spot. That's exactly what happened when Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto fought each other last July.

[Valdosta]

1 against 3? Maybe some people think that makes a champion but not when the guy rated number 2 beat the guy rated 3. If Mosley wants to be the champion he needs to beat Cotto otherwise there is a BIG dispute.

[BKING]

1 against 3? Maybe some people think that makes a champion but not when the guy rated number 2 beat the guy rated 3. If Mosley wants to be the champion he needs to beat Cotto otherwise there is a BIG dispute.

So Buster Douglas, who people probably considered a top 20 heavyweight at the time, shouldn't have been crowned the heavyweight champion when he knocked out Mike Tyson in Tokyo????? :headscratch:


Using your logic in the case we're currently debating.... I guess Tony Tucker, who had previously made Douglas quit, had just as good of a claim of being heavyweight champion as Douglas did. :eeeeeky: After all, even though Tucker lost to Tyson, he beat Douglas... and Douglas beat Tyson. I didn't hear anybody anointing Tucker as the champion at that time.




Cotto eeking out a close decision over Mosley almost two years ago weighs less than Mosley knocking out the Welterweight Champion of the World (who stopped Cotto) just six months ago!

Like I said, Cotto has to beat Mosley to become the WW champion of the world.

[Valdosta]

Different circumstances like I said, number 2 held a win over number 3. Just because number 3 beats number 1 does NOT make him undisputed at all. Just the opposite, it is VERY disputeable. Cotto has plenty of an argument.

[BKING]

Different circumstances like I said, number 2 held a win over number 3. Just because number 3 beats number 1 does NOT make him undisputed at all. Just the opposite, it is VERY disputeable. Cotto has plenty of an argument.


Yes, and when Buster Douglas KOed Mike Tyson, he was ranked higher than Douglas at that time and also had a stoppage win over Douglas.

It's the same pattern as we're disgussing here:

Tucker beats Douglas.
Tyson beats Tucker.
Douglas beats Tyson.

Tucker was DEFINITELY DEFINITELY ranked above the 42-1 underdog at the time that he shocked the world in Tokyo.

[Valdosta]

Yes, and when Buster Douglas KOed Mike Tyson, he was ranked higher than Douglas at that time and also had a stoppage win over Douglas.

It's the same pattern as we're disgussing here:

Tucker beats Douglas.
Tyson beats Tucker.
Douglas beats Tyson.

Tucker was ranked above Douglas at the time that Douglas won the title.

So these guys were rated 1,2 and 3? :thumb:

[BKING]

You beat the champion, you're supposed to be crowned the champion. I don't care if they're ranked 1, 2, 7, 34, 56! You beat the champion, you're crowned the champion. That's all I gotta say.

[Valdosta]

Then there is no champion the lineage died with Mayweather.

[BKING]

Then there is no champion the lineage died with Mayweather.


So in that case, there was never a heavyweight a champion of the world in our life time either????
Rocky Marciano died undefeated as the champion in a plane crash. Therefore, nobody ever beat him so nobody really won the heavyweight championship after he passed.

When Floyd Mayweather Jr retired, the welterweight championship became vacant. Just because a champion retires does not mean he stays the champion forever. A new champion emerges when the consensus #1 and #2 guys meet in the ring.

After Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto (CLEARLY #1 and #2 at the time), fought each other last summer, you're claiming to this forum that Antonio Margarito did not come out of that fight as the new welterweight champion of the world?????

If you were create a sanctioning body with that logic, it would take FOREVER to establish a champion.

Let's say Cotto fought Mosley and beat him. There's still be no champion in your eyes.

Cotto would have to beat Margarito, who had beaten him, to earn that distinction.

[Valdosta]

Margarito is a non factor because currently he is no longer a boxer in the US. We can go in circles all day and you can call Mosley the champ that is fine. My point is he is not the undisputed champion at 147, theres more than 1 guy with a claim. You disagree but that's your opinion.

[Rebel]

Funny I gave a RBR where is yours? I really don't care where the fight was held at. The truth is Mosley has ALWAYS gotten the benefit of the doubt from the judges. In this case he still lost. At the end of the day Cotto beat Mosley and most people agreed with the decision.
Yes, you gave a RBR after 10 years. haha

I'll rewatch it tonight and post my RBR so we can see where we differ.

[Valdosta]

Yes, you gave a RBR after 10 years. haha

I'll rewatch it tonight and post my RBR so we can see where we differ.

I had scored it previously as well but never wrote it down. My opinion was always the same. Cotto beat Mosley. :tongue:

[Valentino]

Mosley should be the recognized champ IMO. Margarito was #1, Cotto #2, and Mosley #3. The Ring should have recognized the Mosley-Margarito fight as a championship fight since Margarito had already defeated Cotto.

Margarito cheated in that fight...a fight that Cotto was arguably winning until the last two rounds.

Cotto defeated Mosley in a LEGIT fight.
Mosley defeated Margarito in a LEGIT fight.
Margarito "defeated" Cotto in a fight where he cheated.

He would have done the same to Mosley too...thankfully to Mosley, his trainer saw blood stains in the hands wraps of Margarito.


IMO...there is no clear champion in that weight class. The winner of Cotto-Pac MUST fight Mosley to determine the Champ.

[Valentino]

In my book, Shane Mosley is the welterweight champion of the world.

I thought Cotto vs. Mosley was a very close fight. I had it 6-6. Could've been 7-5 for Cotto, but not much more than that. This was a prime, undefeated Cotto that Mosley was fighting at the time.

Paul Williams had moved up in weight after destroying Quintana in their rematch. Which left Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley as the top three contenders at WW and the WW championship was VACANT.

Margarito beat Cotto, loaded gloves or not, in a fight between the #1 and #2 guy at WW at the time. Margarito became the WW champ in many people's eyes by defeating Cotto.

When Margarito fought Mosley, that was a fight between the WW champ of the world and the #3 guy in Shane Mosley. Mosley dominated and knocked out Margarito!

Cotto beat Mosley by a close dec (this fight will be two years old in November).
Margarito stopped Cotto.
Mosley beat the shit out of Margarito and knocked him out - this was the most RECENT result as well as the most CLEAR CUT win out of all of these results.

Going both by lineage and what most recently happened, Mosley deserves recognition as the WW champion of the world! :clappy:


Hmmmm...are we talking the same Quintana that DEFEATED Williams too? Sure, Williams won in the rematch...but still Quintana DEFEATED Williams too.

Guess what...Cotto DESTROYED Quintana BEFORE Williams LOST to Quintana.

[Valentino]

I'm talking about the lineage following Floyd's retirement.

When Floyd retired in May 2008, the WW title became VACANT.

From that point on, the sequence of events were as follows:

*Paul Williams KO1 Carlos Quintana. Williams leaves WW division shortly thereafter.
*Antonio Margarito (#1) TKO11 Miguel Cotto (#2). Margarito becomes WW champ, as is supposed to happen when the #1 and #2 guys face each other in a division where the title is vacant.

Shane Mosley (#3) KO10 Antonio Margarito (THE CHAMP). Mosley becomes the WW Champion.

IMO, it's not Mosley who has to fight Cotto if he wants to become the Champ.
It's Cotto who has to fight Mosley if he wants to win the Championship.

Cotto lost to Margarito more recently than he beat Mosley.
Mosley dominated Margarito much more recently than he lost to Cotto.


I noticed that you conveniently left two fights out that MATTER on this issue:

Cotto DESTROYS Quintana
Quintana CLEARLY defeats Williams
Williams DESTROYS Quintana...

I would not be surprised if Quintana defeats Mosley in a match. It is about styles...

Margarito has plaster of paris when he "defeated" Cotto - a fight where Cotto was clearly winning until the last 3 or so rounds.
Margarito did NOT have plaster of paris when he lost to Mosley.

Mosley did NOT defeat the same fighter that fought against Cotto.

In a head to head match: Cotto defeated (IMO clearly) Mosley.

[gregg]

I just love how people try to diminish Pac's wins against Oscar and Hatton when most picked Oscar to destroy him and Hatton to win or at least make it a game fight. What does Pac have to do to get respect? Beat a Klitschko? Then some would say he was overrated, all he could do is jab. Give me a break, if Pac quit today he is way ahead of a lot of fighters in the resume department.

[Jack1000]

Like who?

I think Mosley has the best claim right now.

I had him Drawing against a PRIME Cotto, and he destroyed Cotto's conqueror.

Cotto drew with Mosley in my eyes, got stopped by Margarito, and then barely scraped by Clottey.

Clottey can't win a big fight.

Williams hasn't fought at WW in awhile.

Mayweather and Pacquiao have never beaten a legit top WW.

Again, no one has a stronger claim than Mosley.


I had Mosley by a point over Cotto in a fight as close and microscopically hard to call as they come. I would love to see a rematch. Shane is now back to the top, but because of age, realistically, for how long? Cotto is still a very top guy, whom I feel should have lost against Clottey, (another close fight.)

And the Margarito win over Cotto will ALWAYS have a tainted feeling to it because of the possibility that Antonio had plaster in his gloves for that as well. We will never know how many of Margarito's wins may have been tainted with loaded gloves, and shit, if Margarito did use loaded gloves against Cotto, that's an automatic illegal thing. Really, ANY of Margarito's wins with loaded gloves if proven, should not count. Gotta keep it fair.

Forrest is the only guy to make Mosley look like shit twice. Mosley killed a Margarito without loaded weapons and went tooth and nail, neck in neck with Cotto in a fight that you could make a case for Shane winning. Clottey should still be in the contender's list, but he does still fade late in fights. Also judges are not going to do him any favors in giving him close rounds against big meal tickets, so it looks like Josh is out.

I agree about the above claims of Williams, Pacquiao, and Mayweather. Floyd only fights guys at least:

a. 1-2 divisions smaller than he

OR

b. Someone without a punch that could hurt him.

OR

c. An opponent coming off a big loss whom Floyd "Moneybags, Gayfeather" sees as vulnerable.


Jack

[EBIHARA63]

I just love how people try to diminish Pac's wins against Oscar and Hatton when most picked Oscar to destrou him and Hatton to win or at least make it a game fight. What does Pac have to do to get respect? Beat a Klitschko? Then some would say he was overrated, all he could do is jab. Give me a break, if Pac quit today he is way ahead of a lot of fighters in the resume department.:thumb:Yeah,but don't critise Fagquez,he did beat up old man Casa and baby bullshit-I mean Pac could never in a million years achieved that :24:.Hey,De La Faggot -You should have called for protection when Pac was fucking you up :crying: