HBO: Ortiz vs. Maidana 9PM CST (Spoilers@ 9:15)

[Jack1000]

For the on-going round by round commentary about tonight's fight.

Jack

[Yobbo]

Both down in round 1. Ortiz was hurt bad.

[Yobbo]

Maidana down twice in round 2.

[Yobbo]

Good round 5 for Maidana. Ortiz cut from a punch.<br>

[Yobbo]

Ortiz dropped in round 6 and quits.

[Yobbo]

Fight ruled to be stopped on cuts. Ortiz had had enough after being pounded and dropped and wanted no more and complained about the cut and got it stopped.<br>

[Valdosta]

Ortiz clearly quit.

[Valdosta]

Ortiz gave Madaina credit but Ortiz has a bad attitude for a boxer who isn't established. Basically saying he don't want to go out on his shield so he quit. Said he didn't deserve to go out like that? he might want to find a new profession.

[Yobbo]

Ortiz gave Madaina credit but Ortiz has a bad attitude for a boxer who isn't established. Basically saying he don't want to go out on his shield so he quit. Said he didn't deserve to go out like that? he might want to find a new profession.
Yeah said he quit so he could talk when he's older.

[mikE]

It's a smart person's self-preservation attitude in a sport that almost always requires the opposite to excel in.

[Valdosta]

It's a smart person's self-preservation attitude in a sport that almost always requires the opposite to excel in.

IF Madaina had that attitude he wouldn't have won the fight. If Ortiz wanted to have self preservation he should have fought a smarter fight.

[mikE]

I agree. If that is your mindset, you fight defensive and don't look for ko's. That way you never run into the killer of killers--fatigue. Oscar is a prime example of someone who thought self-preservation first. Ortiz probably has enough talent to fight that way.

[Jack1000]

What a great fight!!!! Yes, there was some disappointment in Ortiz quitting, but he can still live to fight another day. I was glad that it ended with a Maidana win because I love those types of railes from multiple knockdowns to win types of fights!

What I did not like is that going in you could tell the biased Delahoya favored promoted commentary with Manny acting like Maidana had no chance seconds after the first round bell had sounded, I mean WTF was that shit?! Most of the discussion was centralized post-fight on how and why Ortiz lost, rather than congratulating Maidana on a thrilling come from behind win. It's so obvious that the HBO crew is in bed with Golden Boy Promotions. Manny had to be referenced post-fight to REMIND the fans of what Maidana had just done. They should have given him a little more credit.

I mean people complain about things in boxing's past like hometown judging or officiating by a biased ref. Thank God that HBO announcing team is never appointed official judges for a Delahoya or Cotto fight!

But fights like this should tell HBO, "Hey, we don't need the OHHH and AHHH over the Olympian superstar against a C+ type opponent." This was a return to what HBO Boxing After Dark was under the tutelage of Lou Dibella. A great fight, a great war, with two evenly matched fighters. Don't "Build Legends One At A Time" just to go ga-ga-ga over them. Give the public great fights like this one, showing how awesome HBO Boxing can be with great matchmaking.

This was an incredible fight!

Jack

[Erik]

Man what a fight. Fight of the night fo sho.

I am disapointed in Ortiz for seeming to quit. I am still a big fan and thought it was a great fight. Shit have these two fight two more times.

Ortiz is young and still can have a great career.


Side note #1 Kudos to Maidana. He is a badass.

Side note #2 What was up with Maidana's haircut? Thats was the worst hair cut I have seen in a while. He must be a bad ass to wear that hairdo.

Side note #3 nice show of class by Ortiz, he gave Maidana all the credit and took all the blame. He was honest and an real man.

Side note #4 FOY?

[Xplosive]

Ortiz quit.

[Erik]

Ortiz quit.


And???

[Erik]

I am shocked sitting here drinkin at like 11 PM, I am watchin Sportscenter and they are showing highlights of this fight. Instead of showing solid highlights from both sides they pretty much rip Ortiz for being overated and show him on the canvas twice.
Instead of bashing Victor show highlights of both and put out the idea of a second fight????

[neo_wolf]

Ortiz quit.

Yup, and his comments afterward saying how he didnt need to take more punches showed how much of a heart he lacks.Its not like he's some kind of ring veteran that had one to many wars. I dont see him being the same, he wont go far with that attitude.
Another Panzito Bojado.

[Rebel]

Well, it was quite the great fight I expected. Both fighters showed real grit, particularly Maidana.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned all of the illegal rabbit punches Maidana landed. I'll probably go back and count them tomorrow. I recall Maidana landing about 20 illegal rabbit punches, and I think those punches eventually had a lot to do with turning the tide.

[Valdosta]

yeah that big right hand that Ortiz never recovered from at the end of round 5 didn't change anything.

[O-Dogg33]

Wow I'm speechless. What a letdown. First of all that was an incredible fight and Maidana showed tremendous heart and will and deserved that victory.
But man I'm so bummed out about that loss for Ortiz. I had a lot of hope for him. I don't know if boxing is for him after that post fight interview. He seemed too content with giving up although I do think stopping the fight was the right call because of the cut and swelling but I'd like to see more hunger from Ortiz to go on.

Who knows whats next for him. HBO is no doubt upset because they invested alot in Ortiz being a future star for them. I don't see any point in him taking him taking a tuneup. He says he wants a rematch so he better take it now and wash away the bad taste this left his fans with.

[hockeystl]

Another HBO golden boy goes down in flames for being a gutless turd....

[Valdosta]

Another HBO golden boy goes down in flames for being a gutless turd....

LOL!! Not a good few months for HBO. Ortiz quits and admits he don't want to go out on his back. Angulo losses to Cintron. Berto was boring as shit against Urango and Kirkland looks like he is heading back to prison. HBO needs to find some new investments. :lol:

[Erik]

Another HBO golden boy goes down in flames for being a gutless turd....

Well that's easy for you to say sitting on your couch. He did quit but that was a war. He is young and took a beating. He was down, cut & swollen. He didnt jsut fold in the 1st round after 1 knockdown. I can't be to hard on him.

[Valdosta]

Well that's easy for you to say sitting on your couch. He did quit but that was a war. He is young and took a beating. He was down, cut & swollen. He didnt jsut fold in the 1st round after 1 knockdown. I can't be to hard on him.

Sorry but the interview just don't speak well for his future. Ortiz is 22 and talking like it's no big deal to quit already. If all fighters thought that way there would have been a lot of great comebacks that never would have happened.

[Erik]

LOL!! Not a good few months for HBO. Ortiz quits and admits he don't want to go out on his back. Angulo losses to Cintron. Berto was boring as shit against Urango and Kirkland looks like he is heading back to prison. HBO needs to find some new investments. :lol:


Yeah remember earlier in the year Kellerman did a whole segment on the up & coming future stars of HBO on 1 of their telecast.

They need to be more like Showtime. Less PPVs and exclusive fighters and just show the best fights available. Showcase some young fighters, Shobox rocks!!!

[Erik]

Sorry but the interview just don't speak well for his future. Ortiz is 22 and talking like it's no big deal to quit already. If all fighters thought that way there would have been a lot of great comebacks that never would have happened.


I agree it sounds bad for him & his furure. But I cant say he is a "gutless turd"

[Rebel]

yeah that big right hand that Ortiz never recovered from at the end of round 5 didn't change anything.
I rewatched the fight last night and those rabbit punches weren't as bad as I thought. There were a handful of them but Ortiz landed a few of his own. Ortiz just couldn't handle the rough tactics and power later in the fight. The better man definitely won.

I hope HBO doesn't completely forget about Maidana. The guy is damn good and is willing to fight just about anywhere. I'm definitely a fan.

[Rebel]

LOL!! Not a good few months for HBO. Ortiz quits and admits he don't want to go out on his back. Angulo losses to Cintron. Berto was boring as shit against Urango and Kirkland looks like he is heading back to prison. HBO needs to find some new investments.
How about Maidana? :lol:

[Valdosta]

How about Maidana? :lol:

Yeah they should bring him back for sure. :nod: He's not exactly the type of guy who will be the face of HBO though. LOL.

[Erik]

Agreed, HBO doesnt need to sign these stars to 5 fight multi million dollar contracts. Just pay whos hot. Pay Maidana to be on HBO for his next fight or two and move on.

[Rebel]

Yeah they should bring him back for sure. :nod: He's not exactly the type of guy who will be the face of HBO though. LOL.
That guy will make for some great fights though. I'd love to see him take on Holt or Torres in a showcase type fight and then face the winner of Bradley/Campbell.

[Rebel]

Hey Erik, great pic of Pavlik and Paul Williams. :beer:

[Valdosta]

That guy will make for some great fights though. I'd love to see him take on Holt or Torres in a showcase type fight and then face the winner of Bradley/Campbell.

Madaina-Torres would be a great fight. I wouldn't care to see Madaina-Holt though. Holt would piss his pants before he even got into the ring.

[Valentino]

Ortiz quit.

A clear indication that talent is NOT everything. That fights are won and lost in the ring. ANYONE can win in boxing.

At least Ortiz quit in the ring...

...but others have done worst by NOT even facing the best of the best.

[neo_wolf]

Not this shit again.

[Erik]

Hey Erik, great pic of Pavlik and Paul Williams. :beer:


:lol: Ive heard that before.

Actually at HOF some old guy asked me for an autograph.

[Valdosta]

A clear indication that talent is NOT everything. That fights are won and lost in the ring. ANYONE can win in boxing.

At least Ortiz quit in the ring...

...but others have done worst by NOT even facing the best of the best.

Ortiz is never going to make it far enough to face "the best of the best" so no worries there he quit before he got that far.

[Rabid Kimba]

I hope HBO doesn't completely forget about Maidana. The guy is damn good and is willing to fight just about anywhere. I'm definitely a fan.

That's because he's a chino like you.

:mex:

[O-Dogg33]

I rewatched the fight last night and those rabbit punches weren't as bad as I thought. There were a handful of them but Ortiz landed a few of his own. Ortiz just couldn't handle the rough tactics and power later in the fight. The better man definitely won.

I hope HBO doesn't completely forget about Maidana. The guy is damn good and is willing to fight just about anywhere. I'm definitely a fan.

Thats true about Maidana. He's only got one loss and that was questionable. He's got a bright future plus he's exciting and proved he's willing to do whatever it takes to win. There are alot of good options for him at 140. He probably wants to rematch Kotelnik but I'm hoping Khan wins so Maidana can knock his head off.

[Mark G]

Yeah remember earlier in the year Kellerman did a whole segment on the up & coming future stars of HBO on 1 of their telecast.

They need to be more like Showtime. Less PPVs and exclusive fighters and just show the best fights available. Showcase some young fighters, Shobox rocks!!!


I agree, that is definitely the way to go.

[jagganath]

Victor Ortiz just lacks determination and heart. You should always be willing to take the risk when you're inside the ring.

Or he just does not know how to handle a cut.

[Xplosive]

A clear indication that talent is NOT everything. That fights are won and lost in the ring. ANYONE can win in boxing.

At least Ortiz quit in the ring...

...but others have done worst by NOT even facing the best of the best.

Roy called... he said get off his dick.

[Jack1000]

From what I saw in that 6th round, I observed Ortiz shaking his head "no" as he was being led back by the ref for the doctor to examine the cut. He was a beaten fighter and didn't want anymore. But I can't really call him a "quitter" in the classical sense. A real quitter would not have battled back like he did and brawled like he did. They knew the cut was going directly into his eyes, and that is always a bad sign. How much more could he have taken? Remember there was a lot of time left in the 6th round, and he gave us a great 5.5 rounds.

What concerned me was his post-fight interview as if he were contemplating retirement. I think Ortiz can come back and agree with Manny in this instance. He needs to work on defense a little more, and better boxing. I don't think one loss makes him suck. At least not after a fight like that!

Jack

[BKING]

I'm not trying to kick a man when he's down, but from what I can see, Ortiz is never going to be quite the same again. I put him in a class with someone like Bojado. He was terroizing foes and stopping them quickly early on in his career, but the defeat he faced on Saturday night more or less shattered his will and his confidence, judging from his responses in the interview with Max Kellerman. Ortiz's case is even worse than Bojado's because technically he quit. Ortiz will be back and he'll probably thrill the crowds with some exciting KOs - against lesser opposition - but in terms of being successful against top flight opposition, his will was more or less shattered and I'm not sure he has the confidence to do it. He doesn't think he deserves to get beat up! Unless you have Pernell Whitaker or Floyd Mayweather type of defense, you better find another job because you're going to get hit! Against the top fighters in the sport, or even the 140lb division, this kid is going to get a beat up at least a few more times.

[mex fighter]

he quit like a bitch, period.

[Rebel]

After watching the fight a few more times, I have to say I think many here are coming down too hard on Ortiz. He fought his ass off for 5 rounds against a big banger.

Maidana isn't a chump. He's a tough as nails puncher himself and he had Ortiz extremely hurt in that fight towards the end. Ortiz's eye was a swollen mess. There was nothing else Ortiz could do except come out winging and get his head chopped off.

In situations like that I think it's the corner's responsibility to step in and save their fighter. Otherwise, the fighter looks like a quitter when he's obviously through.

[O-Dogg33]

Oritz needs a new trainer as well. I can't believe he had Danny Garcia as his head trainer. Not even Roberto Garcia but Danny! I bet you in the next few weeks you'll hear that GBP has found him someone new probably Roach. Although that may get in the way of a future bout with Khan but thats getting ahead of ourselves.

[BKING]

After watching the fight a few more times, I have to say I think many here are coming down too hard on Ortiz. He fought his ass off for 5 rounds against a big banger.

Maidana isn't a chump. He's a tough as nails puncher himself and he had Ortiz extremely hurt in that fight towards the end. Ortiz's eye was a swollen mess. There was nothing else Ortiz could do except come out winging and get his head chopped off.

In situations like that I think it's the corner's responsibility to step in and save their fighter. Otherwise, the fighter looks like a quitter when he's obviously through.

I don't think people would be as hard on Ortiz had he not quit and opted to come out swinging. Look at what fighters were able to do under even worse circumstances over the course of history.

Kevin Kelley, with that nasty looking swollen eye (looked like a goldfish's eye) knocked Derrick Gainer out cold in a fight (as well as that round) he was LOSING.

Arturo Gatti coming back to knock out Wilson Rodriguez, in a fight in which BOTH of his eyes were swollen shut.

Jorge Castro taking a horrific beating, partially coherent with his face completely swollen up in a fight that was long over due to be stopped in Jackson's favor, knocking out John David Jackson.

I may be coming down hard on Ortiz, but Ortiz is much younger and more talented than all of the wounded, big hearted victors I described above. Ortiz clearly has less mileage than those guys. Fighting for his first world title and trying to make a case that he belongs in the upper echelon, he should've come out swinging and tried to win the fight IMO. You drop the guy twice in the first two rounds, then you get hurt and decide to call it a night? Doesn't look good. Nobody is saying that he wasn't hurt; I'm just saying that he might not be regarded as highly as many (including myself) made him out to be. With the talent he possesses, if only Ortiz had Maidana's heart and will to win, he would've won that fight and we might instead be talking about how special he could potentially turn out to be.

[Rebel]

I don't think people would be as hard on Ortiz had he not quit and opted to come out swinging. Look at what fighters were able to do under even worse circumstances over the course of history.

Kevin Kelley, with that nasty looking swollen eye (looked like a goldfish's eye) knocked Derrick Gainer out cold in a fight (as well as that round) he was LOSING.

Arturo Gatti coming back to knock out Wilson Rodriguez, in a fight in which BOTH of his eyes were swollen shut.

Jorge Castro taking a horrific beating, partially coherent with his face completely swollen up in a fight that was long over due to be stopped in Jackson's favor, knocking out John David Jackson.

I may be coming down hard on Ortiz, but Ortiz is much younger and more talented than all of the wounded, big hearted victors I described above. Ortiz clearly has less mileage than those guys. Fighting for his first world title and trying to make a case that he belongs in the upper echelon, he should've come out swinging and tried to win the fight IMO. You drop the guy twice in the first two rounds, then you get hurt and decide to call it a night? Doesn't look good. Nobody is saying that he wasn't hurt; I'm just saying that he might not be regarded as highly as many (including myself) made him out to be. With the talent he possesses, if only Ortiz had Maidana's heart and will to win, he would've won that fight and we might instead be talking about how special he could potentially turn out to be.
What I'm saying is that I don't think he had enough to even come out swinging at that point. He was taking right hands at will. He was completely through. He was getting totally owned in there.

Of course, it's easy for fans to argue the contrary while sitting on their couches pounding down slices of pizza and beer.

[handolo]

Of course, it's easy for fans to argue the contrary while sitting on their couches pounding down slices of pizza and beer.


:clappy:

[neo_wolf]

He quit, and thats that, if it were a Rican or Mayweather or Roy i bet Rebel would be calling them bitches.

the fact that he said he would not want to go down on his shield, or on his back really showed he lacks heart, he wont ever be the same, im glad Kellerman called him out on that.

[Rebel]

He quit, and thats that, if it were a Rican or Mayweather or Roy i bet Rebel would be calling them bitches.

the fact that he said he would not want to go down on his shield, or on his back really showed he lacks heart, he wont ever be the same, im glad Kellerman called him out on that.
Not true.

I've modified my take on "quitting" over the past couple of years.

For example, many would say that Cotto quit against Margarito, but I don't feel that way. The dude took a massive beating.

Those that are so quick to call fighters quitters are most likely fatasses stuck to couches that have never been in a fight in their entire lives.

[BKING]

Exactly. Just listening to Ortiz saying, "I don't deserve to get beaten up like this" makes you wonder if he can handle the heat at the elite level.

[BKING]

Not true.

I've modified my take on "quitting" over the past couple of years.

For example, many would say that Cotto quit against Margarito, but I don't feel that way. The dude took a massive beating.

Those that are so quick to call fighters quitters are most likely fatasses stuck to couches that have never been in a fight in their entire lives.

Cotto did not quit against Margarito. He was beaten down and stopped. Referee stopped that fight. In this case, Ortiz did not wish to continue.

[Rebel]

I honestly don't know if he'll ever redeem himself but other fighters have. Vitali is a good example of a fighter that came back from a so called "quit" job.

I think before we label someone a quitter we need to take certain things into consideration.

1. Were they in their primes?

2. Were they taking a significant amount of damage prior to bowing out?

3. Was their opponent a big puncher?

4. If I put down this slice of pizza and can of beer, could I do better?

[Rebel]

Cotto did not quit against Margarito. He was beaten down and stopped. Referee stopped that fight. In this case, Ortiz did not wish to continue.
Well, one could argue that his body language prompted the referee to stop it. Why didn't Cotto act like a man and show that he wanted to continue?

Ortiz didn't take a prolonged beating like Cotto, but he took some massive shots thoroughout the bout against a much bigger puncher, particularly in those last 2 rounds.

[neo_wolf]

Klit wasnt in a tough fight, he quit( like a bitch) because of a shoulder injuring.Ortiz quit because he couldnt take the presure and didnt want to go out with everything even though he was leading in the fight,those were his words.
Now look at some others more inexpirienced fighters like Vargas vs Tito or Nelson vs Sanchez, those 2 were in wars with 2 great Fighters and got beaten up pretty bad but they never quit, they had the guts to continue.
And i know i couldnt have done better, thats why im not a boxer.
This is boxing, its the hardest sport in the world, wth was Ortiz expecting?

[mex fighter]

rebel, shut the fuck up with the "eating pizza on the couch thing". he's a boxer, he gets paid to fight. i pay to see him so i can criticize all the fuck i want. if he doesn't want to get criticized for quitting, maybe he shouldn't quit or maybe they should take his pay away next time. we'll see if he quits again.

he has joined the ranks of the new quitting metrosexual boxers. they tend to quit when they see their own blood.

[Rebel]

Mex, STFU.

How do you know Sanchez wouldn't have responded the same way if he were forced into a similar situation?

You wouldn't be latching onto his sack daily, that's for sure.

Use some common sense. It's not like he pulled a "No Mas" out of frustration. He was genuinely getting his ass kicked.

[Rebel]

Klit wasnt in a tough fight, he quit( like a bitch) because of a shoulder injuring.Ortiz quit because he couldnt take the presure and didnt want to go out with everything even though he was leading in the fight,those were his words.
Now look at some others more inexpirienced fighters like Vargas vs Tito or Nelson vs Sanchez, those 2 were in wars with 2 great Fighters and got beaten up pretty bad but they never quit, they had the guts to continue.
And i know i couldnt have done better, thats why im not a boxer.
This is boxing, its the hardest sport in the world, wth was Ortiz expecting?
Nelson didn't take that kind of a beating. Dude held his own for 15 rounds.

Vargas? Did you see what happened to him afterwards. Great career, eh? :slap:

[O-Dogg33]

Nelson didn't take that kind of a beating. Dude held his own for 15 rounds.

Vargas? Did you see what happened to him afterwards. Great career, eh? :slap:

Yeah I love Vargas but that last round was just a slaughter. If anything its the corner's responsibility to protect their fighter and Vargas' dumbass corner ruined his career by not stepping in sooner.

[Xplosive]

Mex, STFU.

How do you know Sanchez wouldn't have responded the same way if he were forced into a similar situation?

You wouldn't be latching onto his sack daily, that's for sure.

Use some common sense. It's not like he pulled a "No Mas" out of frustration. He was genuinely getting his ass kicked.

You know damn well if Floyd was getting his ass kicked like that and quit, you'd be ripping him a new asshole non-stop. But Ortiz does it, and suddenly its ok.

Ortiz is a front runner, plain and simple! He's not a total pussy like Camacho Jr... but like Frietas, when the going gets tough.. Ortiz will get out the ring.

HAVING SAID THAT... Ortiz is still talented enough to beat alot of guys at 140. I mean its not as if 140 has any Pryor's, Tszyu's, or Chavez's around currently. Maidana is arguably the strongest fighter at 140.

So Ortiz still has a future, but only if he has the desire to fight on.

[O-Dogg33]

Cotto did not quit against Margarito. He was beaten down and stopped. Referee stopped that fight. In this case, Ortiz did not wish to continue.

I'm not gonna criticize Cotto for the beating he took but just because he didn't shake off the fight or tell the ref he quit doesn't mean he conceded. He took a knee voluntarily without being dropped by a shot. He was turning his back in some instances. That tells the ref that he doesn't want to continue. Cotto knew that it was over and so did the ref.

[Rebel]

You know damn well if Floyd was getting his ass kicked like that and quit, you'd be ripping him a new asshole non-stop. But Ortiz does it, and suddenly its ok.

Ortiz is a front runner, plain and simple! He's not a total pussy like Camacho Jr... but like Frietas, when the going gets tough.. Ortiz will get out the ring.

HAVING SAID THAT... Ortiz is still talented enough to beat alot of guys at 140. I mean its not as if 140 has any Pryor's, Tszyu's, or Chavez's around currently. Maidana is arguably the strongest fighter at 140.

So Ortiz still has a future, but only if he has the desire to fight on.
I wouldn't talk smack if PBF took a lot of punches, was cut, and boasted a mouse the size of a baseball before bowing out.

[Xplosive]

I wouldn't talk smack if PBF took a lot of punches, was cut, and boasted a mouse the size of a baseball before bowing out.

Did you ever give Roy credit for taking a beating from Sloppy Joe, and not quitting?

[Rebel]

Did you ever give Roy credit for taking a beating from Sloppy Joe, and not quitting?
RJJ was already shot by then so I don't see why that fight would be relevant.

To answer your question though, I didn't talk smack about him. He showed some real grit in that one.

[Valdosta]

There's no speculating in this case. Ortiz said why he quit in the interview after that fight. That reason simply isn't good enough for most fans. If Madaina had that attitude the fight would have been over after 2 rounds. If every fighter quit under those circumstances there would NEVER be any dramatic comebacks. Ortiz went out like a bitch, that's just how it is.

[Rebel]

There's no speculating in this case. Ortiz said why he quit in the interview after that fight. That reason simply isn't good enough for most fans. If Madaina had that attitude the fight would have been over after 2 rounds. If every fighter quit under those circumstances there would NEVER be any dramatic comebacks. Ortiz went out like a bitch, that's just how it is.
Judging by the way his face looked after the fight, he hardly looked like a bitch. I'd say the only bitches around are those that wouldn't even be able to take a jab to the head, much less 6 rounds of hell. :wink7:

[mex fighter]

rebel, you shut the fuck up.

did leonard quit with his swollen eye vs hearns? did jorge castro quit with his face looking like pastrami vs j d jackson? did gatti quit all those times with his face fucked up? did corralles quit vs castillo and vice versa?

its boxing, not a fucking metrosexual beauty contest. we know SNATCHito would win those, but we're not paying to see a beauty contest, are we?

what happened to the fucking days when fighters went out on their shields instead of worrying about having a cut?


you like MMA so you're used to them stopping the fights once the fighter goes down from a punch....we're not. boxers go on till the final round or until their corner or the ref stops it.

[Valdosta]

Judging by the way his face looked after the fight, he hardly looked like a bitch. I'd say the only bitches around are those that wouldn't even be able to take a jab to the head, much less 6 rounds of hell. :wink7:

So I take it his eye was closed and he couldn't see (rhetorical question)? Sorry but Ortiz's interview said all that needs to be said.

[Black Gatti]

After watching the fight a few more times, I have to say I think many here are coming down too hard on Ortiz. He fought his ass off for 5 rounds against a big banger.

Maidana isn't a chump. He's a tough as nails puncher himself and he had Ortiz extremely hurt in that fight towards the end. Ortiz's eye was a swollen mess. There was nothing else Ortiz could do except come out winging and get his head chopped off.

In situations like that I think it's the corner's responsibility to step in and save their fighter. Otherwise, the fighter looks like a quitter when he's obviously through.


His corner made him look like a quitter?

If that had been Floyd, Roy or another black fighter, you'd be saying he was exposed.

[Rebel]

His corner made him look like a quitter?

If that had been Floyd, Roy or another black fighter, you'd be saying he was exposed.
I never said that. I said that in general, corners should look to save a fighter that's clearly through. If Vargas' corner would've done that when he fought Trinidad, he would've had a much better career for sure.

Pathetic. I call it like I see it regardless of color.

And how dare you compare African-American boxers in general to those two front runnin' cherry pickers. :no:

Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong are turning in their graves right now.

[Black Gatti]

Judging by the way his face looked after the fight, he hardly looked like a bitch. I'd say the only bitches around are those that wouldn't even be able to take a jab to the head, much less 6 rounds of hell. :wink7:

In all honesty, that wasn't 6 rds of hell.

Ortiz was cut but too be honest after those "2" right hands at the end of round 5, Ortiz just simply didn't have the guts to face the resistance of Maidana. When Maidana came out strong for rd 6, Ortiz just wilted.

I think the fight was still winnable for Ortiz & I would probably pick Ortiz in a rematch provided he fights a lil smarter & shows some maturity.

That was hardly a beating. If you think Ortiz went thru hell for 6 rounds, you need to show Aurturo Gatti a little more respect!!

[mex fighter]

good think marquez didn't quit after the first round of their first fight, eh, rebel?

he should have taken his health into consideration, right, rebel?

it wasn't one of his best fights, was it, rebel?

VETE AL LA VERGA, PINCHE PU~NAL!

[Rebel]

In all honesty, that wasn't 6 rds of hell.

Ortiz was cut but too be honest after those "2" right hands at the end of round 5, Ortiz just simply didn't have the guts to face the resistance of Maidana. When Maidana came out strong for rd 6, Ortiz just wilted.

I think the fight was still winnable for Ortiz & I would probably pick Ortiz in a rematch provided he fights a lil smarter & shows some maturity.

That was hardly a beating. If you think Ortiz went thru hell for 6 rounds, you need to show Aurturo Gatti a little more respect!!
I always appreciated Gatti's heart. I was just annoyed by his fans trying to shove "world class" down my throat.

He was world class at 130 for a bit, but from 140-147, it was all a sham.

[Rebel]

good think marquez didn't quit after the first round of their first fight, eh, rebel?

he should have taken his health into consideration, right, rebel?

it wasn't one of his best fights, was it, rebel?

VETE AL LA VERGA, PINCHE PU~NAL!
Actually Marquez is the poster child for WARRIOR. Cut him 50 times and he'll still keep coming at you.

[Jack1000]

I think with Ortiz, more people are upset with the stuff he said after the fight like, "I've got a lot of thinking to do. I don't really want to get beat up like this," as opposed to the stoppage of the fight itself. It was like he was contemplating retirement. He could have said something, "Hey I lost, but I'll be back, and I'd love to have another war with Maidana." I think people may have been looking for something post-fight on more of an up-swing. It's not so much whether you believe he quit from the cut, but that in losing a classic brawl, reminiscent of B.A.D's legendary early years of great fights, that as a fighter, Ortiz hinted at retirement.

I believe more of what he said right after the fight rather than the LA Times post-fight article where he indicated he could have gone on fighting. He was shaking his head "no," right after getting up from the knockdown as the ref was taking him back to see the doctor. The day after, he was just trying to save face.

Jack

[BKING]

I honestly don't know if he'll ever redeem himself but other fighters have. Vitali is a good example of a fighter that came back from a so called "quit" job.

I think before we label someone a quitter we need to take certain things into consideration.

1. Were they in their primes?

2. Were they taking a significant amount of damage prior to bowing out?

3. Was their opponent a big puncher?

4. If I put down this slice of pizza and can of beer, could I do better?


We're aloud to eat pizza on a couch. We're not getting paid that kind of money to fight. We're paying money to watch these athletes fight. They get paid good money to go in there and give the fans a show. When the tough got going, Ortiz found a way out of the fight. I agree with Black Gatti. That was not 6 rounds of hell. It was a fight in which Ortiz was in control of for the most part in the first 4 rounds. He was winning the fight and dropped the guy twice. When Ortiz got dropped, that little quitter got up and shook his head no. WTF is that about?? That tells me, against guys who are elite level fighters and have a bigger heart than him, that he's going to fold like a beach chair. He can give it, but he doesn't want to take it! You can justify Ortiz's actions all you want, but the fact of the matter is he quit in pretty ugly fashion in that fight and went so far to admit it in the post fight interview, even hinting at retirement. Ortiz is going to look like a monster against C level fighters, no doubt about it. Guys that can't hurt him or break his will are going to get knocked out in the first 2 or 3 rounds. The moment somebody puts some serious heat (even more serious than Maidana) on his ass, he's not going to want anymore!

[O-Dogg33]

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly...."

[mex fighter]

Bullshit^^^Its the critic that pays to see the in the arena do a fulls day's work. If he doesn't like his work, he should find another job.

[O-Dogg33]

Bullshit^^^Its the critic that pays to see the in the arena do a fulls day's work. If he doesn't like his work, he should find another job.

It wasn't the performance your pissed at, it's his attitude after the fight. He fought hard and was beaten by the better man. He should've just kept his mouth shut about what he was thinking til he had more time to think about it. The moment overwhelmed him.

[mex fighter]

No, his performance. He's not the first or last to get hurt and bleed during a fight.

Go out on your shield, unless of course, you're a new age metrosexual fighter.

Hell, your hero, ultra-metrosexual malignaggi got pissed when they stopped his fight and he was cut up bad.

He went against the grain.

[Rebel]

No, his performance. He's not the first or last to get hurt and bleed during a fight.

Go out on your shield, unless of course, you're a new age metrosexual fighter.

Hell, your hero, ultra-metrosexual malignaggi got pissed when they stopped his fight and he was cut up bad.

He went against the grain.
Para de chillar, sofa warrior. :mex:

[mex fighter]

well paying sofa warrior, get it right.

[Rebel]

well paying sofa warrior, get it right.
HBO was free (trial) this weekend. Mentiroso.

[mex fighter]

And the electricity i pay for to have the tv on?

[Rebel]

And the electricity i pay for to have the tv on?
You watched it at a bar.

[mex fighter]

and the drinks were free?

[Rebel]

and the drinks were free?
Yes, they were comped.

[mex fighter]

OK, the gas that was in my car was paid for by me. I drove to the bar, and oh yeah, don't forget the cover charge to get in.

FUCK YOU!