How great is PBF?

[Rebel]

Screw what his opinion is. What is his real standing all-time at the moment? I may be harsher than others but IMO he's not even as great as Oscar or Mosley right now. He dominated 130, but didn't fight Casamayor or Freitas. Next, at 135, he arguably lost to Castillo in their first fight and scraped by in an ugly rematch. At 140, he didn't do shit. Then at 147-154, he beat the journeyman easy and then almost lost to a 34 year old DLH in a fight I believe should be 6-5-1, Floyd, or even 6-6. He's a very good fighter but hasn't proven to be above the Mosleys and De La Hoyas yet much less Hearn and or Leonard greatness wise.

[andrew]

Uhh what did Mosley ever do that makes him greater then Floyd? He beat DLH, yeah was a great win, but aside from that? He got his ass beatdown twice by Forrest and lost twice to Wright, what was his next best win? Taylor, Stone, Collazo?

[Black Gatti]

Screw what his opinion is. What is his real standing all-time at the moment? I may be harsher than others but IMO he's not even as great as Oscar or Mosley right now. He dominated 130, but didn't fight Casamayor or Freitas. Next, at 135, he arguably lost to Castillo in their first fight and scraped by in an ugly rematch. At 140, he didn't do shit. Then at 147-154, he beat the journeyman easy and then almost lost to a 34 year old DLH in a fight I believe should be 6-5-1, Floyd, or even 6-6. He's a very good fighter but hasn't proven to be above the Mosleys and De La Hoyas yet much less Hearn and or Leonard greatness wise.

He's better than Marquez, I can tell you that!!

[Black Gatti]

Screw what his opinion is. What is his real standing all-time at the moment? I may be harsher than others but IMO he's not even as great as Oscar or Mosley right now. He dominated 130, but didn't fight Casamayor or Freitas. Next, at 135, he arguably lost to Castillo in their first fight and scraped by in an ugly rematch. At 140, he didn't do shit. Then at 147-154, he beat the journeyman easy and then almost lost to a 34 year old DLH in a fight I believe should be 6-5-1, Floyd, or even 6-6. He's a very good fighter but hasn't proven to be above the Mosleys and De La Hoyas yet much less Hearn and or Leonard greatness wise.

BTW - What does DLH's age have to do w/ this when Floyd is just a few yrs younger & they fought at DLH's weight & on DLH's terms?

If DLH's age was a hindrance, then why did you pick him to win??

[Ludovico]

Screw what his opinion is. What is his real standing all-time at the moment? I may be harsher than others but IMO he's not even as great as Oscar or Mosley right now. He dominated 130, but didn't fight Casamayor or Freitas. Next, at 135, he arguably lost to Castillo in their first fight and scraped by in an ugly rematch. At 140, he didn't do shit. Then at 147-154, he beat the journeyman easy and then almost lost to a 34 year old DLH in a fight I believe should be 6-5-1, Floyd, or even 6-6. He's a very good fighter but hasn't proven to be above the Mosleys and De La Hoyas yet much less Hearn and or Leonard greatness wise.

I'll take your word on it since you're clearly big Floyd fan who is objetive and is just tired of Floyd's weak recent competition. :lol:

[TyrantT316]

Just another Mex mad that a Mex was beaten by a non Mex on Mex day.

[R_jay]

I'll take your word on it since you're clearly big Floyd fan who is objetive and is just tired of Floyd's weak recent competition. :lol:

You're just as much of a homer for Mayweather as Rebel is for Oscar.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

Floyd is easily one of the biggest talents of this decade. He's not invunerable, he can be beaten and yes, he has chosen the path of least resistance in some cases. But he's fast, he's got terrific defense, knows how to place punches, fantastic ring generalship and a good enough punch.

He's already got a place reserved in the HOF. How highly he gets ranked or remembered is going to depend on what he does next.

[EBIHARA63]

Just another Mex mad that a Mex was beaten by a non Mex on Mex day.:24: :rotf: PBF looked good in a sombrero

[EBIHARA63]

Screw what his opinion is. What is his real standing all-time at the moment? I may be harsher than others but IMO he's not even as great as Oscar or Mosley right now. He dominated 130, but didn't fight Casamayor or Freitas. Next, at 135, he arguably lost to Castillo in their first fight and scraped by in an ugly rematch. At 140, he didn't do shit. Then at 147-154, he beat the journeyman easy and then almost lost to a 34 year old DLH in a fight I believe should be 6-5-1, Floyd, or even 6-6. He's a very good fighter but hasn't proven to be above the Mosleys and De La Hoyas yet much less Hearn and or Leonard greatness wise.Agree on the part about Sugar ray-The Sugar man beats him Bad.

[zboxz]

Who has PFB not fought yet that would further legitimize him in your eyes?

[EBIHARA63]

Who has PFB not fought yet that would further legitimize him in your eyes?That,s what we all want to know?.I can only think of Mosely.

[Remus]

come on...lets not go the other way here. not as great as mosely ? are you serious ? lol

line ball with dlh. not in the same league as the true greats which is pretty much where i thought he should be ranked before this farce.

[Remus]

That,s what we all want to know?.I can only think of Mosely.

oh please. is the mosely beat up gonna start happening from NOW. get real. :whatver: stop living in the fuckin 90's.

whether by choice or not, floyd did not make the most compelling fights happen. not all of it was his fault, i grant you that. zoo got his ass kicked b4 he could fight nancy. not his fault dlh and ssm are old hags. none of that is the point though.

ricardo lopez lost to no one. it's not HIS FAULT that there were no greats around for him to fight but just cos you have a 0 next to your name don;t make you the best ever.

being the greatest of all time is determined by what you DID not by what you COULD HAVE done.

the lack of authentic competition gifted nancy of the 0 but also prevents him from claiming true greatness.

[Valdosta]

Silly topic. Floyd is without a doubt greater than Mosley. Oscar? Well it depends on what you consider greatness. If you consider a controversial career like Oscar's greater than Floyd's than so be it. Floyd's the better fighter and greater as well in my eyes. Giving up a big ass size advantage and still winning the other night proved that to me, in a weight class that PBF has no bussiness at. People can talk about prime this or prime that but the truth is Floyd is no Jr. MW.

[Valdosta]

People trying to say Floyd fought no one are ridiculous. His top 5 wins are pretty damn good. I would rank them as such.....

1. ODLH- Floyd beat the much bigger guy at an unatural weight. Oscar clearly showed he had something left in this fight. GREAT win for Floyd over the bigger 6 weight champion.

2. Diego Corrales- Was undefeated and wrecking people. Ring #5 PFP. Floyd dominated him in every round and dominated him.

3. Jose Luis Castillo- Long time LW champion with several quality wins

4. Zab Judah- 2 weight champion and undisputed WW champion for a time. Coming off a close loss to Baldomir. Floyd won 8 rounds against him.

5. Genaro Hernandez- Long time LW champion. Floyd dominated him when he was young as hell in what was considered a pick'em fight.

Those are his 5 best wins not to mention guys like Gatti,Corley,Baldomir,Mitchell,Chavez,Hernandez and Manfredy (when that actually meant something). VERY good list of competition.

[Remus]

you are correct to say "not to mention"

zab was a hasbeen, dlh was wayyyyy past prime and castillo beat him once. corrales was outstadning.

that is NOT the resume of one of the greatest fighters of all time.

[Valdosta]

you are correct to say "not to mention"

zab was a hasbeen, dlh was wayyyyy past prime and castillo beat him once. corrales was outstadning.

that is NOT the resume of one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Zab showed no signs of being a hasbeen he was prime. ODLH may have been a bit past prime but he fought Floyd at a weight class where he never lost decisively and Floyd never fought before. Floyd beat Castillo twice. Resume of 1 of the greatest ever? Matter of opinion but for a fighter of today he has a great resume. Lots of A fighters and B fighters.

[Ludovico]

You're just as much of a homer for Mayweather as Rebel is for Oscar.

No, I'm not. I appreciate Floyd skills, dude's terrific but I don't go there claiming some stupid shit. I've never said he's the GOAT or invincible but the man is a great fighter and if you can't bring yourself to admit that, you're an idiot.

You scored the fight for DLH, WTF? I'm not even gonna try arguing with you.

[R_jay]

No, I'm not. I appreciate Floyd skills, dude's terrific but I don't go there claiming some stupid shit. I've never said he's the GOAT or invincible but the man is a great fighter and if you can't bring yourself to admit that, you're an idiot.

You scored the fight for DLH, WTF? I'm not even gonna try arguing with you.

Thats it, keep up the denial. I just did a quick check. Every single post you've made in the past 3 months (and all but 1 in the past 4 months) has been about Mayweather. No, you're not swinging off Mayweather's nuts at all :whatver:

[Remus]

Zab showed no signs of being a hasbeen he was prime. ODLH may have been a bit past prime but he fought Floyd at a weight class where he never lost decisively and Floyd never fought before. Floyd beat Castillo twice. Resume of 1 of the greatest ever? Matter of opinion but for a fighter of today he has a great resume. Lots of A fighters and B fighters.

now you've gone from the sublime to the completely ridiculous. z

1. zab was prime ? zab was just coming off a loss to BALDOMIR ffs.:whatver: zab was a goddam has been. he was also KTFO in 2 rnds by zoo years and years before hand when he was REALLY a true pnd for pndr. after the baldomir loss zab;s whole career was in doubt. come to think of it didn;t zab also lose to spinks soon b4 ? prime ? YEAH RIGHT.

2. there is no MAYBE's about it, dlh IS past his prime. there may be some room for argument as to how FAR past prime he is but to even suggest he may NOT be past his prime is completely moronic.

3. there is also no room for argument about his resume. it is NOT a matter for contention that it is the greatest ever. it is nowehere NEAR the resume of one of the greatest ever. not ever in the same STRATOSPHERE.

seriously your nuthugging of floyd is just going too far. you're starting to sound like a rjj fan of the late 90's. its becoming embarrasing.:slap:

[Valdosta]

If you don't like my posts don't bother with them. Everything I have said is the truth. Zab lost a razor close fight to Baldomir so what? Big, agressive WW's were always going to bother Zab if he can't hurt them. that's part of styles. He lost a close,close fight to Spinks then knocked him the fuck out. Zab was inexperienced against Tszyu if anything. He has been around the block more now. There is NOTHING that suggests he is past it yet. He is still then same fighter he has always been. As for ODLH you can talk about him being past prime all you want. The fact is 154 is NOWHERE CLOSE TO FLOYD'S BEST WEIGHT!! Not even close. Floyd has a great resume for a fighter of this generation. people can cry and shit all they want to but the fact is Floyd has won all of his fights and beaten some very good/great fighters. Get over it.

[R_jay]

Zab's loss to Baldomir was razor close? wtf!

Mayweather has had a much better career than Mosley. Its crazy to say otherwise.

[Rebel]

Uhh what did Mosley ever do that makes him greater then Floyd? He beat DLH, yeah was a great win, but aside from that? He got his ass beatdown twice by Forrest and lost twice to Wright, what was his next best win? Taylor, Stone, Collazo?
Mosley kicked ass at 135 although it was against limited opposition. He then skipped 140 and beat the champ at 147, a prime DLH at 147, becoming the 2nd LW champion in history to duplicate that feat. He then lost to Forrest and Wright because they were bigger men with tough styles, but since then he's had a very good 2nd career.

Don't act like Mayweather shouldn't have a loss on his record, and the man hasn't consistently fought the best in each weight class since the Castillo fights. :no:

[Rebel]

He's better than Marquez, I can tell you that!!
No shit, Einstein!

[Rebel]

BTW - What does DLH's age have to do w/ this when Floyd is just a few yrs younger & they fought at DLH's weight & on DLH's terms?

If DLH's age was a hindrance, then why did you pick him to win??

I picked DLH to earn the close controversial decision in a fight PBF won 7-5, 6-5-1. I was close but no cigar.

No two ways about it. DLH wasn't in his prime. Get real.

[Rebel]

Who has PFB not fought yet that would further legitimize him in your eyes?

Freitas and Casamayor at 130.

Anyone with a heartbeat at 140.

A prime threat at 147-154.

:thumb:

[Rebel]

Silly topic. Floyd is without a doubt greater than Mosley. Oscar? Well it depends on what you consider greatness. If you consider a controversial career like Oscar's greater than Floyd's than so be it. Floyd's the better fighter and greater as well in my eyes. Giving up a big ass size advantage and still winning the other night proved that to me, in a weight class that PBF has no bussiness at. People can talk about prime this or prime that but the truth is Floyd is no Jr. MW.

Do you think PBF could've gone through Quartey, Whittaker, Trinidad, and Mosley without losing at 147? :headscratch:

[Rebel]

now you've gone from the sublime to the completely ridiculous. z

1. zab was prime ? zab was just coming off a loss to BALDOMIR ffs.:whatver: zab was a goddam has been. he was also KTFO in 2 rnds by zoo years and years before hand when he was REALLY a true pnd for pndr. after the baldomir loss zab;s whole career was in doubt. come to think of it didn;t zab also lose to spinks soon b4 ? prime ? YEAH RIGHT.

2. there is no MAYBE's about it, dlh IS past his prime. there may be some room for argument as to how FAR past prime he is but to even suggest he may NOT be past his prime is completely moronic.

3. there is also no room for argument about his resume. it is NOT a matter for contention that it is the greatest ever. it is nowehere NEAR the resume of one of the greatest ever. not ever in the same STRATOSPHERE.

seriously your nuthugging of floyd is just going too far. you're starting to sound like a rjj fan of the late 90's. its becoming embarrasing.:slap:

Valdosta's love for PBF - :hump:blabla:bj:

:clappy:

[Rebel]

If you don't like my posts don't bother with them. Everything I have said is the truth. Zab lost a razor close fight to Baldomir so what? Big, agressive WW's were always going to bother Zab if he can't hurt them. that's part of styles. He lost a close,close fight to Spinks then knocked him the fuck out. Zab was inexperienced against Tszyu if anything. He has been around the block more now. There is NOTHING that suggests he is past it yet. He is still then same fighter he has always been. As for ODLH you can talk about him being past prime all you want. The fact is 154 is NOWHERE CLOSE TO FLOYD'S BEST WEIGHT!! Not even close. Floyd has a great resume for a fighter of this generation. people can cry and shit all they want to but the fact is Floyd has won all of his fights and beaten some very good/great fighters. Get over it.
Zab blows. He also lost to Spinks and should've lost to Piñeda as well if the judges weren't corrupt. Shit, Tsyzu also destroyed him in 2 rounds!

[Rebel]

Here's a very good article putting PBF's career into perspective.

http://maxboxing.com/Kim/Kim050707.asp

[Valentino]

Uhh what did Mosley ever do that makes him greater then Floyd? He beat DLH, yeah was a great win, but aside from that? He got his ass beatdown twice by Forrest and lost twice to Wright, what was his next best win? Taylor, Stone, Collazo?

I bet you this version of Mosley beats PBF.

[Remus]

Here's a very good article putting PBF's career into perspective.

http://maxboxing.com/Kim/Kim050707.asp

i dont know who steve kim is but i wanna shake his hand.

[hazza]

just cos you have a 0 next to your name don;t make you the best ever. being the greatest of all time is determined by what you DID not by what you COULD HAVE done

the lack of authentic competition gifted nancy of the 0 but also prevents him from claiming true greatness.

this is what i meant in my zero myth thread but not many seemed to get the point.

[TyrantT316]

oh please. is the mosely beat up gonna start happening from NOW. get real. :whatver: stop living in the fuckin 90's.

whether by choice or not, floyd did not make the most compelling fights happen. not all of it was his fault, i grant you that. zoo got his ass kicked b4 he could fight nancy. not his fault dlh and ssm are old hags. none of that is the point though.

ricardo lopez lost to no one. it's not HIS FAULT that there were no greats around for him to fight but just cos you have a 0 next to your name don;t make you the best ever.

being the greatest of all time is determined by what you DID not by what you COULD HAVE done.

the lack of authentic competition gifted nancy of the 0 but also prevents him from claiming true greatness.

See this is what gets me with a lot of you guys...it is like nothing a fighter does these days is good enough...

apparently to some of you, everyone is "great"...but not TRULY great until they fight Antoniana Margarita...

is that the formula? Fight welterweights who are hyped because they are tall or have big shoulders?

I am by NO means putting Floyd with Leonard and Robinson...however don't give me this "Floyd isn't great" bullshit..

my stomach hurts

[andrew]

I bet you this version of Mosley beats PBF.

$200 US if it happens?

[Valdosta]

Zab's loss to Baldomir was razor close? wtf!

Mayweather has had a much better career than Mosley. Its crazy to say otherwise.

Zab didn't lose anymore rounds than 7 against Baldomir. If I remember right he lost because of the round he got hurt badly. I think they called that a 10-8 round.

[Valdosta]

Freitas and Casamayor at 130.

Anyone with a heartbeat at 140.

A prime threat at 147-154.

:thumb:

Revisionist history.

[Valdosta]

i dont know who steve kim is but i wanna shake his hand.

Figures, considering he is an idiot.

[Valdosta]

Zab blows. He also lost to Spinks and should've lost to Piñeda as well if the judges weren't corrupt. Shit, Tsyzu also destroyed him in 2 rounds!

Zab lost a damn close fight to Spinks and then knocked him the fuck out. No shame in that Spinks is an excellent boxer. Zab won a close fight against Pineda and lost to Tszyu, several years ago big deal. Zab was in great shape, took the Mayweather fight very seriously and still lost. Good win for Floyd.

[sanchito]

Figures, considering he is an idiot.Discussing PBF with you is like discussing RJJ with Reed back in the day.

[Rebel]

Revisionist history.
The facts speak for themselves. :thumb:

[TyrantT316]

Zab didn't lose anymore rounds than 7 against Baldomir. If I remember right he lost because of the round he got hurt badly. I think they called that a 10-8 round.

exactly...I actually remember Zab winning rounds 1-6 until he got stunned in 7...then losing every round after that...arguably winning ONE of the 7-12 rounds...but 7 was probably scored 10-8

[andrew]

So Rebel why is Mosley a greater fighter?

[TIP]

People trying to say Floyd fought no one are ridiculous. His top 5 wins are pretty damn good. I would rank them as such.....

1. ODLH- Floyd beat the much bigger guy at an unatural weight. Oscar clearly showed he had something left in this fight. GREAT win for Floyd over the bigger 6 weight champion.

2. Diego Corrales- Was undefeated and wrecking people. Ring #5 PFP. Floyd dominated him in every round and dominated him.

3. Jose Luis Castillo- Long time LW champion with several quality wins

4. Zab Judah- 2 weight champion and undisputed WW champion for a time. Coming off a close loss to Baldomir. Floyd won 8 rounds against him.

5. Genaro Hernandez- Long time LW champion. Floyd dominated him when he was young as hell in what was considered a pick'em fight.

Those are his 5 best wins not to mention guys like Gatti,Corley,Baldomir,Mitchell,Chavez,Hernandez and Manfredy (when that actually meant something). VERY good list of competition.

Excellent competition. Floyd is one of the most talented and skilled fighters I ever saw. I think he would have beaten many great fighters in the weight classes he fought in, although 135-140 might have been his best weight. It would take a highly skilled fighter between 135-40 to beat him. I think he's better than Whitaker, Chavez and Arguello at 135-40. I'm not as confident in his success against the top 147lbers though. His skill level is there but I think the weight is a little high for him. I can't find anything to criticise him for, he's pretty much fought all the top guys for as long as he's been in a division. TIP

[handolo]

I think he's better than Whitaker, Chavez and Arguello at 135-40. TIP


really???

[Eric0816]

Is there a PBF fight people will talk about 30 years from now?

[Black Gatti]

Who has PFB not fought yet that would further legitimize him in your eyes?

very good question.

[Valdosta]

The facts speak for themselves. :thumb:

Your skewed opinion don't change the facts.

1. Floyd fought the biggest perceived threat at 130.

2. Floyd fought the biggest perceigved threat at 135.

3. Floyd didn't fight Hatton at 140, but Hatton wasn't really interested at that time anyways.

4. Floyd beat the champ at 147

5. Floyd beat the best known titleist at 154.

Those are the real facts which happen to be pretty fucking impressive. :nod:

[Rebel]

Excellent competition. Floyd is one of the most talented and skilled fighters I ever saw. I think he would have beaten many great fighters in the weight classes he fought in, although 135-140 might have been his best weight. It would take a highly skilled fighter between 135-40 to beat him. I think he's better than Whitaker, Chavez and Arguello at 135-40. I'm not as confident in his success against the top 147lbers though. His skill level is there but I think the weight is a little high for him. I can't find anything to criticise him for, he's pretty much fought all the top guys for as long as he's been in a division. TIP
How can PBF be better than Chavez if he's arguably 1-1 against a poor man's Chavez in Castillo? :slap:

[Keiko]

Is Floyd Jr. really retiring or will he continue to fight? Isn't he in his prime? Why quit now?

[Valdosta]

No he's not really in his prime he has slowed down some (handspeed). He's still damn good though. He will fight again, don't believe that BS about him retiring.

[TIP]

How can PBF be better than Chavez if he's arguably 1-1 against a poor man's Chavez in Castillo? :slap:

Thats a good point. I would think of Arguello, Whitaker and Julio, Chavez do to style would have the best chance at beating him. I think though Mayweather could handle more types of styles better than Julio could. Mayweather would exploit Arguello's lack of agility and I think PBF would be to big and fast for Whitaker. Floyd may be a jerk but he is the goods. If Mayweather actually retires he's a little like Ray Leonard in the sense that he faced good quality opposition in a short career. I doubt that he will though. TIP

[Keiko]

No he's not really in his prime he has slowed down some (handspeed). He's still damn good though. He will fight again, don't believe that BS about him retiring.
Me neither, I don't believe it. He loves money, I don't think he'll quit now.

[lefthooker]

now you've gone from the sublime to the completely ridiculous. z

1. zab was prime ? zab was just coming off a loss to BALDOMIR ffs.:whatver: zab was a goddam has been. he was also KTFO in 2 rnds by zoo years and years before hand when he was REALLY a true pnd for pndr. after the baldomir loss zab;s whole career was in doubt. come to think of it didn;t zab also lose to spinks soon b4 ? prime ? YEAH RIGHT.

2. there is no MAYBE's about it, dlh IS past his prime. there may be some room for argument as to how FAR past prime he is but to even suggest he may NOT be past his prime is completely moronic.

3. there is also no room for argument about his resume. it is NOT a matter for contention that it is the greatest ever. it is nowehere NEAR the resume of one of the greatest ever. not ever in the same STRATOSPHERE.

seriously your nuthugging of floyd is just going too far. you're starting to sound like a rjj fan of the late 90's. its becoming embarrasing.:slap:

I have to agree with much of this post - certainly Zab was seriously damaged goods by the time Floyd whupped him.
DLH is DEFINITELY a past-prime fighter.
More to the point, though, when we talk about 'greatness', surely we have to use comparisons with other 'greats'.
Many wish to argue that Floyd is a 'little guy' who has performed the virtually impossible by winning at 154...okay, so exactly what is PBF's best weight?
130? would he have handled a Chavez or Arguello at that weight?
135? Duran,Whittaker,
140? Does anyone really think Floyd could handle a prime Pryor, Benitez or Chavez? Hell, I bet a prime Meldrick Taylor gives Floyd fits.
147? Even more outlandish IMO...Leonard, Hearns...now THAT'S a 'massacre'.
I made a point of only comparing Floyd to recent greats - not historical icons.
PBF is a fine fighter - very skilled, very gifted, very dedicated.
And for whats out there today he IS the best...but I do wonder what would have happened had Floyd met Tzysu when both were tearing ass at 140 (IMO Floyds TRUE weight)...also it always bothered me that Floyd seemed to want no part of Hatton.After Castillo, I suspect Hatton was a style Mayweather had no time for.
Floyd is currently the 'best' in the world...but in the 'All Time' rankings...he is a second tier guy IMO.

[lefthooker]

Excellent competition. Floyd is one of the most talented and skilled fighters I ever saw. I think he would have beaten many great fighters in the weight classes he fought in, although 135-140 might have been his best weight. It would take a highly skilled fighter between 135-40 to beat him. I think he's better than Whitaker, Chavez and Arguello at 135-40. I'm not as confident in his success against the top 147lbers though. His skill level is there but I think the weight is a little high for him. I can't find anything to criticise him for, he's pretty much fought all the top guys for as long as he's been in a division. TIP

I disagree that Floyd would beat Pea, Chavez OR Arguello at those weights...throw in Benitez and Pryor, both of whom whip him IMO.

[lefthooker]

Is there a PBF fight people will talk about 30 years from now?

No.

[Rabid Kimba]

seriously your nuthugging of floyd is just going too far. you're starting to sound like a rjj fan of the late 90's. its becoming embarrasing.:slap:

Yes, it's very disturbing indeed.

[Rabid Kimba]

i dont know who steve kim is but i wanna shake his hand.

Yes, that article was spot on.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

No.

Mayweather / Corrales was pretty good.

[Valdosta]

A good exhibition of boxing skills. Not a great fight. It's an example of a great boxing display not a great fight. Oh and BTW, for those who are bring in guys like Arguello,Duran,Pryor etc......Floyd would have beaten a guy like Arguello very convincingly that guy was made for Floyd. Floyd probably wouldn't have beaten Duran. However, Duran was certainly bothered by speed and movement in his career at times (even at 135). Pryor? Please that guy had no defense. Granted Pryor throws a ton but Floyd would never miss his no defense ass. Whitaker-Mayweather would be a great tactical fight, probably a toss up. Sorry but from my eyes he don't match up badly with the greats at all until you get up to WW.

[Michael Matos]

I remember quite well one day a friend of mine and myself were at my Dad's watching some Alii stuff and it was some footage from before his exile from the sport and Ali was in his absolute prime and my man said outloud "Ali was great" and my Dad answered right away "Not yet he wasn't"

What my father meant is that even though the Ali we were looking at was at the peak of his powers and was quite possibly at that time the greatest version of a heavyweight ever seeen he hadn't quite got around to being great yet. Floyd Mayweather Jr. is a lot like that Ali we were watching on film, he is at or very near the peak of his powers, and to some in all fairness he may be the best version of a prizefighter they have ever seen, but like that Ali he hasn't quite got around to being great yet.

Line em up, Ali, Robinson, Pep, The Leonards, Benny and Ray, Armstrong, Duran and the list goes on and on, they all ascended into greatness when things weren't going neccessarily well, when they weren't at the peak of their powers and in some cases when their best version was but a memory. I'll admit it I've sat dwon and marvelled at Mayweather, his skill level and instincts are a step above and in all honesty and fairness he just may be the best fighter that the modern(12 round) era has produced. He may very well be comparable at this stage of his career to the Ali's and Robinson's and Duran's but as I said above at that stage of their careers they weren't great yet and neither is Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[Rebel]

No he's not really in his prime he has slowed down some (handspeed). He's still damn good though. He will fight again, don't believe that BS about him retiring.

He's still in his prime, but will be on the way down from here on out. That means that what you saw Saturday was the "greatest" you'll ever seen from him and that wasn't much IMO.

[Rebel]

I have to agree with much of this post - certainly Zab was seriously damaged goods by the time Floyd whupped him.
DLH is DEFINITELY a past-prime fighter.
More to the point, though, when we talk about 'greatness', surely we have to use comparisons with other 'greats'.
Many wish to argue that Floyd is a 'little guy' who has performed the virtually impossible by winning at 154...okay, so exactly what is PBF's best weight?
130? would he have handled a Chavez or Arguello at that weight?
135? Duran,Whittaker,
140? Does anyone really think Floyd could handle a prime Pryor, Benitez or Chavez? Hell, I bet a prime Meldrick Taylor gives Floyd fits.
147? Even more outlandish IMO...Leonard, Hearns...now THAT'S a 'massacre'.
I made a point of only comparing Floyd to recent greats - not historical icons.
PBF is a fine fighter - very skilled, very gifted, very dedicated.
And for whats out there today he IS the best...but I do wonder what would have happened had Floyd met Tzysu when both were tearing ass at 140 (IMO Floyds TRUE weight)...also it always bothered me that Floyd seemed to want no part of Hatton.After Castillo, I suspect Hatton was a style Mayweather had no time for.
Floyd is currently the 'best' in the world...but in the 'All Time' rankings...he is a second tier guy IMO.
:clappy:

[Rebel]

A good exhibition of boxing skills. Not a great fight. It's an example of a great boxing display not a great fight. Oh and BTW, for those who are bring in guys like Arguello,Duran,Pryor etc......Floyd would have beaten a guy like Arguello very convincingly that guy was made for Floyd. Floyd probably wouldn't have beaten Duran. However, Duran was certainly bothered by speed and movement in his career at times (even at 135). Pryor? Please that guy had no defense. Granted Pryor throws a ton but Floyd would never miss his no defense ass. Whitaker-Mayweather would be a great tactical fight, probably a toss up. Sorry but from my eyes he don't match up badly with the greats at all until you get up to WW.

How the fuck would he have beaten Duran if he struggled so badly against Castillo and a past prime Oscar? Seriously....:whatver:

[Valdosta]

He's still in his prime, but will be on the way down from here on out. That means that what you saw Saturday was the "greatest" you'll ever seen from him and that wasn't much IMO.

Anyone with 2 eyes can see Floyd has slowed down as he moved up in weight. WEll, anyone who pays attention anyways. :smiles::

[Valdosta]

How the fuck would he have beaten Duran if he struggled so badly against Castillo and a past prime Oscar? Seriously....:whatver:

Watch Duran against Viruet. Duran could have issues with fast stinkers sometimes. Duran still won but not easily. Floyd can stink a joint out if need be. Floyd's not an easy fight for anyone below 147.

[Rebel]

Watch Duran against Viruet. Duran could have issues with fast stinkers sometimes. Duran still won but not easily. Floyd can stink a joint out if need be. Floyd's not an easy fight for anyone below 147.

Watch PBF/Castillo 1 & 2 for evidence of what his limitations were below. And at 147-154, we just witnessed how an old De La Hoya almost defeated him.

[Black Gatti]

How the fuck would he have beaten Duran if he struggled so badly against Castillo and a past prime Oscar? Seriously....:whatver:

you haven't seen Duran struggle against lesser fighters than Floyd?

[Black Gatti]

Watch PBF/Castillo 1 & 2 for evidence of what his limitations were below. And at 147-154, we just witnessed how an old De La Hoya almost defeated him.

We may have to take away your post privileges if you keep it up w/ this nonsense! haha

[hazza]

Zab lost a razor close fight to Baldomir.

razor close :lol:

[zboxz]

Who has PFB not fought yet that would further legitimize him in your eyes?
where are the names?

[Pascals Wager]

Screw what his opinion is. What is his real standing all-time at the moment? I may be harsher than others but IMO he's not even as great as Oscar or Mosley right now. He dominated 130, but didn't fight Casamayor or Freitas. Next, at 135, he arguably lost to Castillo in their first fight and scraped by in an ugly rematch. At 140, he didn't do shit. Then at 147-154, he beat the journeyman easy and then almost lost to a 34 year old DLH in a fight I believe should be 6-5-1, Floyd, or even 6-6. He's a very good fighter but hasn't proven to be above the Mosleys and De La Hoyas yet much less Hearn and or Leonard greatness wise.

I agree. PBF is below DLH, Tito & possibly Mosley, who are themselves a level below SRL, Hearns & Hagler.

[Ludovico]

I swear to God, I'm done arguing with this idiots about Mayweather. I'm more than happy letting them get blinded by hate. Eventually, maybe a long time from now but eventually they'll realize.

[Valdosta]

razor close :lol:

Yep razor close. Baldomir won by a point, 3 at the most. Judah won a lot of early rounds. No way Judah won less than 5 rounds. He won 5 or 6.

[Valdosta]

Watch PBF/Castillo 1 & 2 for evidence of what his limitations were below. And at 147-154, we just witnessed how an old De La Hoya almost defeated him.

Oscar's much bigger and more natural at 154. ODLH is less than 4 years older than Floyd. Stop with the biased nonsense. Oh and BTW, Floyd won clear. Floyd's record against Castillo and ODLH combined 3-0. Like I said Duran struggled at times with guys like Viruet. No reason to believe Duran runs over Floyd. None.

[Mark G]

I don't like Floyd that much anymore. I used to. He's gotten more and more boring. He used to be in some decent fights back in the day. Now he talks a lot of shit and bores out the whole house. There are a few dozen fighters that I would rather watch.

Yeah, Floyd is a great fighter, but if allowing Floyd to carry boxing's torch will do nothing but turn fans away.

I'm impatient with fighters who stink out the house and I DON'T appreciate the intricasies of the skills if they get to the extreme point of boredom. They should never go that far.

[Remus]

I swear to God, I'm done arguing with this idiots about Mayweather.

good, fuckoff then.

[Remus]

great lets bring roberto duran into this. yeah, they are soooooo comparable.

[EBIHARA63]

great lets bring roberto duran into this. yeah, they are soooooo comparable.Your right ,they are not comparable-Mayweather hasn,t quit like a girl and cried No Mas:lol:

[Remus]

yeah i'm surprised nancy never quit fighting quality guys like gatti.

[hazza]

Yep razor close. Baldomir won by a point, 3 at the most. Judah won a lot of early rounds. No way Judah won less than 5 rounds. He won 5 or 6.

he got his arse kicked, jesus what fight were you watching.

[andrew]

$200 US if it happens?

bump

[Valentino]

Watch Duran against Viruet. Duran could have issues with fast stinkers sometimes. Duran still won but not easily. Floyd can stink a joint out if need be. Floyd's not an easy fight for anyone below 147.

If Duran defeated a PRIME and FASTER and BIGGER Leonard. He can certaintly defeat PBF.

Viruet was not the same high and did not have the same style that PBF.

[Rebel]

you haven't seen Duran struggle against lesser fighters than Floyd?
I wouldn't imagine him struggling against Castillo or an old De La Hoya.

[Rebel]

BTW, screw the Duran fight. Could someone please explain to me how PBF would even defeat JCC at 130-140, both of their prime weights? JCC only struggled against a fighter who threw a million laser punches a round, yet he still got KOd in the 12th. Then we have Whittaker and Randall who got to Chavez after he had well over 90 fights but they matched up better with JCC. Based on the Castillo fights, I'd have to say that Chavez beats up a retreating Mayweather over 12 rounds. He may even stop him late.

[Remus]

please stop with the duran talk. it's making me sick to my stomach and just encourages the stupidity.

[handolo]

If Duran defeated a PRIME and FASTER and BIGGER Leonard. He can certaintly defeat PBF.




that's because leonard tried to out brawl one of the greatest brawlers of all-time that first fight, PBF would never have the cajones to fight that way. that being said pbf doesn't have the size of leonard so i think duran beats pretty boy at any weight class.

[handolo]

BTW, screw the Duran fight. Could someone please explain to me how PBF would even defeat JCC at 130-140, both of their prime weights? JCC only struggled against a fighter who threw a million laser punches a round, yet he still got KOd in the 12th. Then we have Whittaker and Randall who got to Chavez after he had well over 90 fights but they matched up better with JCC. Based on the Castillo fights, I'd have to say that Chavez beats up a retreating Mayweather over 12 rounds. He may even stop him late.




:no: i do belive chavez struggled against Laporte too. :nod:

[Valentino]

that's because leonard tried to out brawl one of the greatest brawlers of all-time that first fight, PBF would never have the cajones to fight that way. that being said pbf doesn't have the size of leonard so i think duran beats pretty boy at any weight class.

But that was a DURAN about 12 lbs ABOVE his best weight class and with over 70 fights under his belt and 13 years fighting as a professional against PRIME Leonard which was arguably one of the top 3 ALL TIME WELTERWEIGHT GREATS (and for that matter one of the TOP 20 ALL TIME GREAT)


And THAT is what makes Duran a LEGENDARY fighter.

[Valentino]

:no: i do belive chavez struggled against Laporte too. :nod:

Chavez struggled against Laporte...and so did Salvador Sanchez, Rocky Lockridge (which was KTFO), Eusebio Pedroza, and Azumah Nelson.

Don't compare Castillo with Juan Laporte.

[handolo]

Chavez struggled against Laporte...and so did Salvador Sanchez, Rocky Lockridge (which was KTFO), Eusebio Pedroza, and Azumah Nelson.

Don't compare Castillo with Juan Laporte.


who's comparing him to castillo?

[EBIHARA63]

:no: i do belive chavez struggled against Laporte too. :nod:He also had fits with Rocky Lockridge :nod:

[Tug]

So a few days ago Valdosta is lecturing people for over rating PBF and now he saying PBF's a great; talk about 180's! Still those who picked PBF to win know the real score.

It's like watching The Life of Brian. I eagerly await the first posting saying PBF's the messiah and Remus coming back saying "No he's not, he's a very naughty boy"

[Valdosta]

Floyd is a great. My thread was more about the fact that Floyd was no lock over Oscar because of the size difference. If you keep moving up in weight you eventually lose to someone inferior. Floyd beating ODLH enhanced his greatness even more.

[Valdosta]

If Duran defeated a PRIME and FASTER and BIGGER Leonard. He can certaintly defeat PBF.

Viruet was not the same high and did not have the same style that PBF.

Viruet was taller but the guy was a runner. Floyd can fight the same way. Funny thuing is I didn't say Floyd would beat Duran, I did say he would give him issues. I'll stick with that statement.

[Mark G]

BTW, screw the Duran fight. Could someone please explain to me how PBF would even defeat JCC at 130-140, both of their prime weights? JCC only struggled against a fighter who threw a million laser punches a round, yet he still got KOd in the 12th. Then we have Whittaker and Randall who got to Chavez after he had well over 90 fights but they matched up better with JCC. Based on the Castillo fights, I'd have to say that Chavez beats up a retreating Mayweather over 12 rounds. He may even stop him late.


The analogy is a good one between Floyd and JCC, because Castillo had a style strikingly similar to Chavez. But Chavez was superior in every regard. Castillo was a former sparring partner of Chavez as well.

[Tug]

True, if you keep moving up in weight you will end up losing. However if you're smart and pick opponents atthe right time you can move up a lot further than you would if you fought guys who are in their prime. Oscar is past primeand what's more enough people recognised this and picked PBF to win hence your post about so many people over rating Floyd.

[Valdosta]

Actually plenty of people picked Oscar to win. However a lot of people who picked Floyd made it sound like Oscar had no shot. Talk about Oscar being past prime all you want but he had never decisively lost at 154 and Floyd has moved up a lot of weight divisions in a relatively short amount of time. Damn people have a hard time giving fighters credit these days.

[Tug]

I guess some of prefer to rank a fighter as great on more than a resume consisting of very shopworn Gatti, slow as a sloth Baldomir, whatever Judah, and a past prime Oscar.
If you were to ask the question is PBF an extremely skillful and talented fighter I would agree in a shot. That alone doesn't make greatness. Could he be a great? Yes but he needs to do more than what he has so far. The term great is handed out way too easily as is the term bum.

[Valdosta]

If you want to get picky any fighters resume can be torn apart. The truth is Floyd....

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 130

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 135

beat garbage for his title at 140, but hatton wasn't interested anyways.

Fought the champion at 147

Fought the most known champion at 154

Those are the facts and all the downplaying of his excellent resume don't change that.

[The Hitman]

If you want to get picky any fighters resume can be torn apart. The truth is Floyd....

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 130

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 135

beat garbage for his title at 140, but hatton wasn't interested anyways.

Fought the champion at 147

Fought the most known champion at 154

Those are the facts and all the downplaying of his excellent resume don't change that.


i would add to the resume that he fought the most dangerous champion at 130, then fought the biggest perceived threat at 130.

then moved up and immediately fought the top champ at 135, and gave him an immediate rematch at the first sign of controversy (important because DLH didn't afford Sweet Pea that luxury).

skipped 140, then 147 and 154 are true to what Valdosta is saying.

the only thing that this fight proves, imo, is that Floyd ranks lower all time than Sweet Pea

[Rebel]

:no: i do belive chavez struggled against Laporte too. :nod:
Are you on crack? Chavez won that fought like 11-4:slap: .

[Rebel]

PBF is the new RJJ with many blind fans latching on to his ballsack. It's rather sad too because RJJ is turning out to be greater. PBF has now been reserved to carefully calculating each fight because he knows he's not as great as he thinks he is. Shit, he was suppose to "massacre" DLH, but barely scraped by via a mere pubic hair, similar to the type that Valdosta currently has stuck between his teeth. :24:

[The Hitman]

Are you on crack? Chavez won that fought like 11-4:slap: .

dude Chavez-LaPorte was a 12 round fight... and it WAS very very close. i had chavez winning a razor thin fight (altho i can't remember the exact score... someone had a point deducted during the match)

Hitman

[The Hitman]

PBF is the new RJJ with many blind fans latching on to his ballsack. It's rather sad too because RJJ is turning out to be greater. PBF has now been reserved to carefully calculating each fight because he knows he's not as great as he thinks he is. Shit, he was suppose to "massacre" DLH, but barely scraped by via a mere pubic hair, similar to the type that Valdosta currently has stuck between his teeth. :24:


no no- floyd's win over DLH is greater than anything jones accomplished. Floyd, while he DID skip 140, has met his top challenges in every weight class too. Jones fought one top challenge then coasted on a lenient HBO contract that let him hand pick opponents until he calculated a match against one of the worst heavyweight titleholders in history to cement his legacy. At least Floyd fought DLH, who even if he was as bad as people are making him out to be (which is complete BS) is ten times the fighter ruiz will ever be.

floyd fought top champs and challenges at 130 and 135, the linear champ at 147 and then biggest star in the division and even boxing, who is still (imo) an elite fighter.

roy jones can only wish he accomplished that

[Rebel]

dude Chavez-LaPorte was a 12 round fight... and it WAS very very close. i had chavez winning a razor thin fight (altho i can't remember the exact score... someone had a point deducted during the match)

Hitman

Well I have that fight on tape and it's been awhile, but I recall having Chavez well ahead at the end.

[Rebel]

no no- floyd's win over DLH is greater than anything jones accomplished. Floyd, while he DID skip 140, has met his top challenges in every weight class too. Jones fought one top challenge then coasted on a lenient HBO contract that let him hand pick opponents until he calculated a match against one of the worst heavyweight titleholders in history to cement his legacy. At least Floyd fought DLH, who even if he was as bad as people are making him out to be (which is complete BS) is ten times the fighter ruiz will ever be.

floyd fought top champs and challenges at 130 and 135, the linear champ at 147 and then biggest star in the division and even boxing, who is still (imo) an elite fighter.

roy jones can only wish he accomplished that
Jones still defeated a young Hopkins and a prime Toney, which is far greater than any victory on Mayweather's ledger.

[Ludovico]

Shit, he was suppose to "massacre" DLH, but barely scraped by via a mere pubic hair, similar to the type that Valdosta currently has stuck between his teeth. :24:
Is thay why half the people here picked DLH to win? He was supposed to massacre DLH? didn't you pick DLH to win? What a fucking hypocrite.

[Ludovico]

BTW.. I think this is what stings Rebel more than anything.

Mayweather/RJJ >>>>>>>>>> Morales, Marquez and DLH.

[handolo]

Well I have that fight on tape and it's been awhile, but I recall having Chavez well ahead at the end.



yeah but you also had marquez shutting out pac after the 3rd round. and DLH drawing with PBF. lol ;)

[Black Gatti]

PBF is the new RJJ with many blind fans latching on to his ballsack. It's rather sad too because RJJ is turning out to be greater. PBF has now been reserved to carefully calculating each fight because he knows he's not as great as he thinks he is. Shit, he was suppose to "massacre" DLH, but barely scraped by via a mere pubic hair, similar to the type that Valdosta currently has stuck between his teeth. :24:

sounds like you're talking about Marquez.

That fucker ducked every decent fighter for a decade then when he finally got an old MAB, he didn't even scrape by IMO. I still feel that he lost that fight.

So basically JMM is a never was.

[Black Gatti]

dude Chavez-LaPorte was a 12 round fight... and it WAS very very close. i had chavez winning a razor thin fight (altho i can't remember the exact score... someone had a point deducted during the match)

Hitman

Forgive him, he just wings it. haha

[Black Gatti]

Is thay why half the people here picked DLH to win? He was supposed to massacre DLH? didn't you pick DLH to win? What a fucking hypocrite.

The truest words you ever spoke!!

Rebel is one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever known. I gaurantee you he'll still try to defend his point.

He picked DLH to win, now he's saying that PBF was supposed to slaughter him. Is there any way around that being hypocritical?

[Michael Matos]

dude Chavez-LaPorte was a 12 round fight... and it WAS very very close. i had chavez winning a razor thin fight (altho i can't remember the exact score... someone had a point deducted during the match)

Hitman

I was at that fight, I thought Chavez won it fairly conforatbly. Mind you Laporte was New Yorker and the fight was in the Garden to me the atmosphere made it a closer fight than it was. It was also twenty years ago the memory may be a bit hazy.

[The Hitman]

I was at that fight, I thought Chavez won it fairly conforatbly. Mind you Laporte was New Yorker and the fight was in the Garden to me the atmosphere made it a closer fight than it was. It was also twenty years ago the memory may be a bit hazy.


fair enough... i definitely felt chavez won as well

[handolo]

no one said chavez lost, just that he struggled with laporte.

[Lemus]

I don't think anyone denies that Floyd is an amazing talent. His resume at 130 and 135 are outstanding, that is obvious. What is also obvious though is that since then, he has cherry picked his opponents and has definitely not cleaned out any divisions.

This discussion isn't about fighting title holders and fighters with the most recognizable names, this is about Floyd's legacy and how he stacks P4P with the all time greats. After getting off to a great start the last 5 yrs of his career fall short of all time great status, no really meaningful victories over any future HOFers, with the exception of a past prime, inactive ODLH and even that fight was too close. I thought Floyd would win convincingly and while I still thought he won, the fight was closer than it should have been.

[mex fighter]

Is it a good thing to be the best (and having a sucky style) during an era when boxing sucks the most?

[andrew]

Is it a good thing to be the best (and having a sucky style) during an era when boxing sucks the most?

*yawn* stop whinging.

[mex fighter]

fuck you, then.

have you noticed that showtime and hbo are jumping on the MMA bandwagon? I wasn't concerend with MMA at first, but it seems like it is taking over. Yes, this does have to do with floyd because he's part of the problem....a BIG part.

[andrew]

fuck you, then.

have you noticed that showtime and hbo are jumping on the MMA bandwagon? I wasn't concerend with MMA at first, but it seems like it is taking over. Yes, this does have to do with floyd because he's part of the problem....a BIG part.

Explain the BIG part Floyd is.

[mex fighter]

easy.....he the best and now very, very, very recognizable because of his fight with oscar. how many people do you think were turned off by his style and not tune in thinking "if he's the best, then boxing sucks".

pathetic that you can't market your best fighter knowing no one will want to watch. you know i'm a hardcore fan but hell, i don't want to watch him fight.

[Rebel]

If you want to get picky any fighters resume can be torn apart. The truth is Floyd....

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 130

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 135

beat garbage for his title at 140, but hatton wasn't interested anyways.

Fought the champion at 147

Fought the most known champion at 154

Those are the facts and all the downplaying of his excellent resume don't change that.

Now that's revisionist history.

It should read:

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 130 who was later defeated by Casamayor. He should've fought Casamayor and Freitas too.

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 135 and he couldn't dominate him. JCC is a very good fighter but nothing special. Nevertheless, many had PBF boringly splitting with him for his failure to engage with his Daddy.

Beat garbage for his title at 140.

Defeated garbage at 147.

Fought the most known champion at 154, a decripid hasbeen who ironically almost defeated him.

[Rebel]

Is thay why half the people here picked DLH to win? He was supposed to massacre DLH? didn't you pick DLH to win? What a fucking hypocrite.
I picked DLH to win a controversial decision. In other words, I felt PBF would outscore DLH and lose a controversial decision in a fight where he'd prove he's not at the level of even Leonard or Hearns.

I was almost right. :owneddance:

[Rebel]

sounds like you're talking about Marquez.

That fucker ducked every decent fighter for a decade then when he finally got an old MAB, he didn't even scrape by IMO. I still feel that he lost that fight.

So basically JMM is a never was.
When have I ever claimed Marquez is one of the greatest top 20 ever?

[Rebel]

no one said chavez lost, just that he struggled with laporte.
Just like PBF struggled with Hernandez?

[Rebel]

The truest words you ever spoke!!

Rebel is one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever known. I gaurantee you he'll still try to defend his point.

He picked DLH to win, now he's saying that PBF was supposed to slaughter him. Is there any way around that being hypocritical?
Comprehension 101...

[Ice Black]

easy.....he the best and now very, very, very recognizable because of his fight with oscar. how many people do you think were turned off by his style and not tune in thinking "if he's the best, then boxing sucks".

pathetic that you can't market your best fighter knowing no one will want to watch. you know i'm a hardcore fan but hell, i don't want to watch him fight.

Just for the record - "you're a hardcore fan" means that if the fight's on (a major fight) - you'll watch it anyway, even that in your hart you know it sucks?

'Cos maybe if more "hardcore fans" would have fucked up the ratings of different bullshit major fights the situation would be different.

Cheerz!!

P.S.: For ex. - I'm a hardcore mma fan, but I'm extremely picky on what I choose to watch and to follow, and if an event is on - it's still far from being a good reason for me to watch it.

[mex fighter]

i didn't say i wouldn't watch it, i said i wouldn't want to. big difference.

just like a winky wright fight or a johnny tapia fight....i know its a guaranteed slapfest decision, but i'll watch it because its on. would i rather see someone else, absolutely.

[Ice Black]

That's not a description of hardcore fan my friend, but of a couch potato, who'll watch anything, preferably boxing.

If you got a "taste" - defend it and don't compromise for shit.

Cheerz!!

[mex fighter]

you need reading lessons, olaf. i said i rather watch SOMEONE else, not something else. i'll take any fight on tv, but rather watch
another fighter....a tough guy, a puncher, a guy that takes risks.

being the hardcore fan that i am, i'll watch the garbage,too (pbf, winky, tapia, calderon, malignaggi, salita, gugaladsi(sp), etc)

a non-hardcore fan would turn that shit off.

[Tug]

If you want to get picky any fighters resume can be torn apart. The truth is Floyd....

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 130

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 135

beat garbage for his title at 140, but hatton wasn't interested anyways.

Fought the champion at 147

Fought the most known champion at 154

Those are the facts and all the downplaying of his excellent resume don't change that.
Of course you've got to get picky when ranking someone as an all time great otherwise you could stick anyone in as a great if you don't consider the standard of their achievements. Hatton and Calzaghe have got pretty long unbeaten records, doesn't make them greats by any stretch of the imagination and that's because of the general quality of their opponents.

PBF did the business pre 140; after that there isn't much to crow about. As for Hatton turning him down you keep saying that but never provide proof, so that's hearsay or more likely just made up as you seem to have a problem with Brit fighters; provide the proof and I'm happy, I've shown the link where Hatton says he wants PBF but I think I can rest easy you can't/won't.

So he beat Baldomir, Judah and Gatti; in all honesty that's not exactly a glowing recommendation. As for beating ODLH as I said before pick your timing and you can beat anyone.

[handolo]

Just like PBF struggled with Hernandez?

no reb, not even close...


unless you meant jesus chavez.

[Ice Black]

you need reading lessons, olaf. i said i rather watch SOMEONE else, not something else. i'll take any fight on tv, but rather watch
another fighter....a tough guy, a puncher, a guy that takes risks.

being the hardcore fan that i am, i'll watch the garbage,too (pbf, winky, tapia, calderon, malignaggi, salita, gugaladsi(sp), etc)

a non-hardcore fan would turn that shit off.


I am a bit dyslexic as a matter of fact, that's why I usually check things twice.
You'd rather watch someone else, but since there ain't a good fight going on, you'll watch any shitty fight that's on.

Since when hardcore fans watch every stinking fight that's on? Man, that's like people telling me something like - "I like any type of metal music". And for me - that person doesn't have a taste in metal whatsoever and just thinks it's cool to listen to "noise" and wear black. It's just an example though, but I guess it makes my point clear.

Like in that metal example- it's impossible to follow the whole genre (you see - I even ain't talking about music in general, but narrowing it down to one genre, yet a big one). Same in boxing - why follow and watch everything? Be picky man, it saves lot's of nerve cells in the longrun, saves thoughts like "I knew it'd be a waste of time" and you know what - fans aren't picky just 'cos popularization of things, not just in boxing.

Cheerz!!

[mex fighter]

wait, what are we doing here......am i defending or trying to prove that i'm a hardcore fan by your standards?

I'm also a hardcore futbol fan and will watch any team, not just my favorite. Does that make me a couch potato....I guess.

Doesn't change the fact that PBF is the type of fighter that is bringing down the sport, IMO.

(besides, i've been married for 13 years...its either watch any fighter or pay attention to the wife.....i'll take boxing)

[Valdosta]

Now that's revisionist history.

It should read:

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 130 who was later defeated by Casamayor. He should've fought Casamayor and Freitas too.

Fought the biggest perceived threat at 135 and he couldn't dominate him. JCC is a very good fighter but nothing special. Nevertheless, many had PBF boringly splitting with him for his failure to engage with his Daddy.

Beat garbage for his title at 140.

Defeated garbage at 147.

Fought the most known champion at 154, a decripid hasbeen who ironically almost defeated him.

LMAO!! You are kind of pathetic. You picked Oscar and when Floyd was fighting Baldomir you was fine with it. Not Baldomir was "garbage". Like I said more revisionist history. What I wrote was FACTS, that you tried to downplay as anyone who hates a fighter can do. ANyways, I am done defending Floyd, this shit gets boring to me. People are just stupid.

[Ringside]

wait, what are we doing here......am i defending or trying to prove that i'm a hardcore fan by your standards?

I'm also a hardcore futbol fan and will watch any team, not just my favorite. Does that make me a couch potato....I guess.

Doesn't change the fact that PBF is the type of fighter that is bringing down the sport, IMO.

(besides, i've been married for 13 years...its either watch any fighter or pay attention to the wife.....i'll take boxing)

Patetico!..Letting a "Ruskie" push you around like that! Any Mex-American worth his "beans" would put up a "Rabbi Pic" and teach him a lesson! You're slipping! lol Padrino

[ericjw]

Floyd is a great boxer, but he's going to have to do more in the future to separate himself from the other greats of this era. Beating a dangerous but aging De La Hoya doesn't cut it, even if he was giving up size.

One thing I've read on this thread and disagree with is people saying Judah was "damaged goods" when Mayweather fought him. Judah was what he's always been: a very talented but inconsistent (and stupid) fighter.

[mex fighter]

Patetico!..Letting a "Ruskie" push you around like that! Any Mex-American worth his "beans" would put up a "Rabbi Pic" and teach him a lesson! You're slipping! lol Padrinoi was thinking about it......"hmmm, a nice pic of a jew with huge pigtails getting his ass kicked would be nice right about now", but ever since certain female posters joined our ranks, this place has become to pc.

wait, he's a "red" jew? well, that certainly changes everything.

[ericjw]

no reb, not even close...


unless you meant jesus chavez.

Floyd didn't struggle with Jesus Chavez, unless you count blocking and slipping most of Chavez's shots and countering him silly.

Harold Lederman's scorecards sometimes crack me up.

[Ice Black]

wait, what are we doing here......am i defending or trying to prove that i'm a hardcore fan by your standards?

I'm also a hardcore futbol fan and will watch any team, not just my favorite. Does that make me a couch potato....I guess.

Doesn't change the fact that PBF is the type of fighter that is bringing down the sport, IMO.

(besides, i've been married for 13 years...its either watch any fighter or pay attention to the wife.....i'll take boxing)

:lol:

I guess we do agree on something Mexington. About PBF I mean.

Good thing you don't "have to" follow israeli football, so there's still hope you got good taste :wink7:

Cheerz!! :beer:

[Ice Black]

i was thinking about it......"hmmm, a nice pic of a jew with huge pigtails getting his ass kicked would be nice right about now", but ever since certain female posters joined our ranks, this place has become to pc.

wait, he's a "red" jew? well, that certainly changes everything.

:lol:

Calling me a jew in a wrong country, or calling me a russian in another wrong country can result only in one thing - severe body damage :wink7:
Besides, I don't see people bothered by "cock sucking" comments towards the femail members, so it shouldn't be a problem eh buddy?

Anyway, I'm a rare guest on the boxing side of this forum's universe, so I won't continue polluting it by my red russian jewish mongolian opinions.

Cheerz!! :beer:

[handolo]

Floyd didn't struggle with Jesus Chavez, unless you count blocking and slipping most of Chavez's shots and countering him silly.

Harold Lederman's scorecards sometimes crack me up.


i dunno, i kinda remember chavez giving pbf some trouble. more than hernandez anyways.

[ericjw]

i dunno, i kinda remember chavez giving pbf some trouble. more than hernandez anyways.

He was competitive in the sense that he was making Floyd work hard and was throwing a lot of punches.

But I had Floyd pretty wide ahead on the cards.

I agree that he gave Floyd more trouble than Carlos Hernandez, at least with his fists (and not the top of his head).

[Xplosive]

no no- floyd's win over DLH is greater than anything jones accomplished. Floyd, while he DID skip 140, has met his top challenges in every weight class too. Jones fought one top challenge then coasted on a lenient HBO contract that let him hand pick opponents until he calculated a match against one of the worst heavyweight titleholders in history to cement his legacy. At least Floyd fought DLH, who even if he was as bad as people are making him out to be (which is complete BS) is ten times the fighter ruiz will ever be.

floyd fought top champs and challenges at 130 and 135, the linear champ at 147 and then biggest star in the division and even boxing, who is still (imo) an elite fighter.

roy jones can only wish he accomplished that

Your on crack for that statement! Roy's win over Toney SHITS on Floyd's win over Oscar. DLH is past primed and hasnt been a top 5 P4P fighter in over 7 years, and Floyd struggled against him. Toney was considered the top P4P when he fought Roy, and RJ shut him out and toyed with him for 12 rounds. How is that comparable? The only win on Floyd's resume which compare's to Roy is win over Chico. But Chico(god rest his soul) couldnt carry a prime Toney's jockstrap! Roy's wins over Toney, and Hopkins, and even throw in the way he obliterated Hill, shits on Floyd's resume.

Now back to the topic. I'm a Floyd fan, but I'm an OBJECTIVE one. Floyd will go down as an all time great and deservedly so. No, he's in the same league as Leonard & Robinson. He's not even in Roy's league IMO, but he'll go down as higher than Shane and Oscar. And he'd certainly be a threat to beat anyone in the history of 130-140, although theres a number of guys who in thier primes I'd favor to beat Floyd...... namely Sweet Pea, Pryor, Duran, Benitez, JCC, and due to styles, perhaps a prime Camacho.

[Black Gatti]

I picked DLH to win a controversial decision. In other words, I felt PBF would outscore DLH and lose a controversial decision in a fight where he'd prove he's not at the level of even Leonard or Hearns.

I was almost right. :owneddance:

You were totally wrong. You were trying to play both sides of the fence & still got it wrong!

[Black Gatti]

Comprehension 101...

what part of that do you disagree with?