Why is Floyd being so overrated going into the ODLH fight?

[Valdosta]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination. Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:

[Ringside]

on a local Philly interview. his face is abnormally swollen looking compared to its normal appearance. He may not be carrying the weight well. I am starting to revisit my pick for him as if he just does not look right. Also after the interview with the camera not quite off of him he went from a pose smile to a blank bored stare. Oscar of course carries thisweight perfectly. Ringo

[Ringside]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination. Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:

Corley actually for three rounds or so had major pressure put on Floyd here in A.C.before Floyd turned it around. Oscar would be tougher in this regard. Maybe I will cahnge my pick...Ringo

[Rabid Kimba]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination. Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:

Agreed.

[Smokin]

what are you going by?

If you read through the predictions thread on the fight, heaps and heaps are tipping Oscar! Im actually shocked the opposite way.

We will see what happens in about 50 hours now!!

[Punchy]

I didn't wanna start a new thread, so I'll just post it here.

http://www.secondsout.com/headlines/index.cfm?ccs=532&cs=21940

I know it doesn't mean shit, but look how big and ripped Floyd is. He filled out to 154 nicely with his frame.

[BJ*]

what's funny is that its the "mainstreamers", casual fans, people who probably have never even watched more than one pbf fight, are the ones going pbf all the way. its interesting that many here think about things like the size difference, Oscars handspeed, his jab, etc and lean towards DLH.
its pretty backwards when you think about it.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination. Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:


Oscar is older, rustier, has had many injuries, is slower and hasn't really had his head in the fight game for a while.

Come on. I think the only reason you're overrating Oscar is to make Floyd look better when he wins.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

what are you going by?

If you read through the predictions thread on the fight, heaps and heaps are tipping Oscar! Im actually shocked the opposite way.

We will see what happens in about 50 hours now!!

Exactly. In the predictions thread lots of people were picking Oscar. Someone should take a tally (feeling lazy right now, not it!)

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

I got bored, here's the tally from SuperJ's thread give or take:

Oscar to win: 19

Draw: 2

Floyd to win: 15

Looks like Oscar is the favorite by a bit here.


SuperJ DLH VIA KO / R9
neo_wolf floyd will win clearly 8 rounds to 4.
Bouffant_Spectacular Floyd UD
andrew Floyd UD
Rabid Kimba Golden Boy decisions Pretty Boy in a one-sided beating.
handolo pbf ud
BKING DLH KO 10
sanchito DLH tko 9
Mark G DLH TKO 8!
Remus it'll be floyd by UD.
Michael Matos De La Hoya.....KO6
TysonFan Mayweather Jr by rounds 8 to 4
TIP Oscar by KO mid to late rounds.
Rebel Oscar via a close decision that perhaps some will deem controversial.
Black Gatti Draw!!
Valdosta I got oscar by KO or corrupt decision
Erratic DLH by TKO7.
EBIHARA63 PBF 8 rounds to 4.
Mofongo DLH 8-4
Hut*Hut Mayweather by domination.
Big Bear Oscar by late stoppage 9-12 rds
Lemus PBF in a boring UD.
Punchy Mayweather by unanimous decision,
Ludovico DLH by questionable MD.
The Hitman Controversial draw
Diesel Oscar, by wide decision or stoppage.
hazza odlh tko10 pbf
El Profesor End result - a Mayweather "win"
BJ* Oscar via a close decision Ditto
minkyboodle DLH via Wide UD with PBF going down once.
Jack1000 Delahoya by UD
Ringside I have to pick PBF 9 to 3. Decisive.
zboxz Mayweather will easily beat Oscar
Keiko I think FLoyd with win by UD.
Tug Floyd by UD
BKING I still pick Oscar by KO in 10 rounds.

[R_jay]

Oscar is older, rustier, has had many injuries, is slower and hasn't really had his head in the fight game for a while.



Unfortunately this is all true, and why I think De La Hoya will lose.

[Valdosta]

Oscar is older but only by 4 years and really hasn;t been injured in a while. When I think about it Floyd has injury issues as much as ODLH and Floyd's are more likely to come into play in this fight. Oscar looked like Oscar in his last fight, no more or less. Another thing, I have never saw Oscar decisively lose at 154. I have never seen Floyd fight at that weight period.

[Valdosta]

Come on. I think the only reason you're overrating Oscar is to make Floyd look better when he wins.

I bet on Alexander Munoz and ODLH figuring that at least 1 of 2 would hit. I don't bet on guys though unless I think they can (or will) win. I bet more on ODLH than a lot of people make in a week. I really don't care about "making Floyd look better when he wins".

[Rene]

I bet on Alexander Munoz and ODLH figuring that at least 1 of 2 would hit. I don't bet on guys though unless I think they can (or will) win. I bet more on ODLH than a lot of people make in a week. I really don't care about "making Floyd look better when he wins".

Shit, how much did you bet and on what exactly did you bet on? Oscar win, Oscar win by decision, ko, etc.? What kind of odds did you get?

[Valdosta]

I took garbage odds which was stupid of me but I put 1k on Munoz and 1k on ODLH. I just took him to win outright. In my eyes, Floyd has to dominate to win which makes this at worst for ODLH a pick'em fight.

[Rene]

Wow, that's a big bet, good luck.

[Valdosta]

Wow, that's a big bet, good luck.

I might lose but the odds made it worth it to me. That's the advantage of taking 2 +numbers (Munoz already won). 1 guy wins and no matter what happens to the other I profit. However I like Oscar's chances or else I wouldn't have made the bet in the first place. :smiles::

[Remus]

i'm sick of explaining this fight to you dosta. do a search. oscar will get spanked.

[BJ*]

In my eyes, Floyd has to dominate to win which makes this at worst for ODLH a pick'em fight.

why? you think dlh will get the benefit of the doubt?

i see it completely opposite. dlh has been on the short end of close ones before. also, its in the best interest of boxing that floyd wins...boxing needs a new star to hang its hat on. oscar winning is meaningless for everyone other than oscar's own legacy.

if oscar wins, then what? an old timer bout with mosley again?

no sir, a close fight goes PBFs way for sure.

also think about early rounds...in round 1 and 2 if not much happens - a feeling out round, stalking... a few flicked jabs... the defensive fighter ALWAYS gets credit for those meaningless rounds that no one remembers but have a big impact in the final scorecard.

[O-Dogg33]

Oscar is older but only by 4 years and really hasn;t been injured in a while. When I think about it Floyd has injury issues as much as ODLH and Floyd's are more likely to come into play in this fight. Oscar looked like Oscar in his last fight, no more or less. Another thing, I have never saw Oscar decisively lose at 154. I have never seen Floyd fight at that weight period.

I don't want to hear it, Oscar is past prime remember. Don't try to hype it up if Floyd wins and make excuses if he loses! Coming in you were saying that Floyd would dominate him.

But seriously I can see where all the second guessing comes from. This fight has been building up for so long and everybody and their mama has been writing articles and pleading their case about who's going to win. It can drive you crazy! I've played every scenario in my head and I can justify each one happening somehow. I'm ready for Sunday morning already.

[BKING]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination. Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:


I'm shocked! This is coming from what has appeared to be over the past two years or so to be a Floyd groupie. I'm glad you see it the way it is though. I realize Floyd trains like no other athlete in preparation for his fights, but throughout the build up leading to this showdown, Floyd seems more over-confident than I have seen him in any of his previous bouts. He's usually a confident individual, but it's progressed to the stage of insecure cockiness.

Oscar De la hoya is not only bigger, but also much more skilled than these other guys Floyd has faced in recent years. Oscar's handspeed is also underrated. Floyd is going to be a little shocked when he realizes that Oscar can ALMOST match his handspeed. I do believe Oscar is going to win this fight. Floyd doesn't have the punching power to truly get Oscar's respect. He does have the handspeed, but speed is almost useless if you are too far out of range against a taller, stronger guy with longer reach (just look at Forrest/Mosley I).

If Oscar comes out, from the first round on, firing that left jab at a high frequency and gets into a rhythm from the outset, Oscar is going to bust that ass and Floyd will be in for a VERY difficult night. He can't let Floyd get comfortable like he was against Baldomir or Gatti. Floyd gets comfortable against slower and less skilled guys he knows he can do whatever he wants against. Oscar is not going to let him get comfortable. Oscar needs to keep his distance, to a point where Floyd has to reach in to hit him, and fire that jab to set up his left hooks and right crosses. I firmly believe a combination, ending with a right hand, is what's going to end this fight in Oscar's favor. The right hand will knock out Floyd Mayweather.

If the fight goes the distance, and I'm wrong about Oscar knocking Floyd out, Oscar will get the decision if he can CONVINCINGLY win FOUR CLEAN ROUNDS. If Oscar can prevent himself from being lured into a street fight, and fights a disciplined fight by applying controlled aggression, I think he is going to be OK. Floyd has been overrated and overhyped IMMENSELY for the past two years now. He is the best P4P fighter in the world; it was a title he won when Roy Jones Jr got KTFO by Antonio Tarver almost three years ago. Oscar De la hoya, who went to a weight class that was out of his element to face the true Middleweight Champion in Bernard Hopkins and did reasonably well before being stopped, has been slightly underrated.

There is SOME soft spots in Floyd's character, soft spots that have not been exposed yet in 37 fights. He's complained about his hand hurting him, as he cried after many of his victories. He's gotten away with this against smaller and less skilled opponents who have not been able to make him pay for these vulnerabilities. Yet, Floyd has still managed to pull of Ws in some big fights. I gotta give him his props. Zab was a good win for Floyd. Zab was a top 5 WW at the time. Baldomir was the Welterweight Champion of the World. Very good win for Floyd. But guess what? Just as Floyd stated that he could've done the same thing as Oscar did to an old Pernell, an old Chavez, and an old Camacho, I also believe Oscar could've knocked those guys (Mitchell, Judah, and Baldomir) the fuck out had he faced them. Oscar has 4 losses on his record (he's officially lost against three guys really), but he's probably faced more top 5 P4P guys in his career than Floyd has.

Put an overrated Floyd Mayweather in against an underrated Oscar De la hoya, and I think a lot of ppl are going to be shocked when they see Oscar pin the first loss on the career of Little Floyd. Floyd will be competitive in the fight, as long as it lasts, but as rounds go by, and Oscar is HITTING Floyd with that left jab, you're going to see Oscar starting to land combinations off of those jabs with greater and greater effect as the fight gets into the middle rounds.

You're going to see that Floyd, possibly hurting his hands again, is going to find himself in a position that he's never been in before. Getting hit, taking more punishment than he's ever taken before against the biggest and most skilled fighter he's faced to date. When he discovers that he's in that ring with a guy who is NOT cooperating with him, that cocky personna will soon transform into that of a concerned, possibly pannicked, individual. That is when he will unravel. Why? Because he doesn't know how to LOSE. He's never faced adversity INSIDE the ring. We've seen some soft spots when he's unraveled outside of the ring and broken down crying. If it can happen outside the ring, it can happen inside the ring. All it takes is the perfect guy, the perfect opponent, who will bring it out of him by putting up the perfect fight to defeat him.

You can mark my words to this. Oscar will do just that to Floyd tomorrow night. Floyd is going to unravel when he discovers that his hands are hurting him, he's getting hit with stiff punches by a fighter who (as the rounds go by) will look more and more like a monster putting up a stiff challenge than a slow cooperative sparring partner (ala Gatti and Baldomir). As the rounds get later and later, it will begin to look like MAN vs BOY. Oscar has been in that position before, so he knows how to deal with it better than his opponent because he's learned through trial and error. Experiencing that type of struggle for the first time in years is going to cost Floyd this fight.

Oscar schools PBF enroute a 10th round KO that'll shock some ppl, but not me. See for yourself tomorrow night.

If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But I have been watching boxing for over 15 years now and I have confidence in my ability to know and understand what I am looking at in matchups and superfights of this magnitude.

[The Hitman]

who is promoting this fight?

[BKING]

who is promoting this fight?


Oscar De la hoya and Golden Boy Promotions.

[The Hitman]

Oscar De la hoya and Golden Boy Promotions.

seriously?

[BKING]

seriously?

Yes sir.

[The Hitman]

cheers

[The Hitman]

oh and i completely agree with Valdosta here. to the point where i think to say otherwise is pretty ignorant

[Mark G]

Yes sir.


Good post. There are a lot of things that people are overlooking here, as you point out. I think De la Hoya's size and strength is going to be a factor here.

I am picking DLH, but I'm not as confident as you. What's the word with De la Hoya looking slow in his training? Is his heart still in it?

[Mark G]

Come on. I think the only reason you're overrating Oscar is to make Floyd look better when he wins.


I remember when the Roy Jones disciples when on a full-fledge propaganda campaign to convince us all that Ruiz was a complete bad ass before Jones fought him.

:24:

[El Profesor]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination.

Smoke...


Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:

...and mirrors.



Come on. I think the only reason you're overrating Oscar is to make Floyd look better when he wins.

:nod: x 100

[Valdosta]

why? you think dlh will get the benefit of the doubt?

i see it completely opposite. dlh has been on the short end of close ones before. also, its in the best interest of boxing that floyd wins...boxing needs a new star to hang its hat on. oscar winning is meaningless for everyone other than oscar's own legacy.

if oscar wins, then what? an old timer bout with mosley again?

no sir, a close fight goes PBFs way for sure.

also think about early rounds...in round 1 and 2 if not much happens - a feeling out round, stalking... a few flicked jabs... the defensive fighter ALWAYS gets credit for those meaningless rounds that no one remembers but have a big impact in the final scorecard.

Oscar often "wins" rounds with bullshit flurries that misses. Also as someone else mentioned in this thread, i't a GBP. Anyone pay attention to the scores on Oscar's last show? They were pretty awfull. That is why Floyd needs to dominate to win IMO.

[Valdosta]

I'm shocked! This is coming from what has appeared to be over the past two years or so to be a Floyd groupie. I'm glad you see it the way it is though. I realize Floyd trains like no other athlete in preparation for his fights, but throughout the build up leading to this showdown, Floyd seems more over-confident than I have seen him in any of his previous bouts. He's usually a confident individual, but it's progressed to the stage of insecure cockiness.

Oscar De la hoya is not only bigger, but also much more skilled than these other guys Floyd has faced in recent years. Oscar's handspeed is also underrated. Floyd is going to be a little shocked when he realizes that Oscar can ALMOST match his handspeed. I do believe Oscar is going to win this fight. Floyd doesn't have the punching power to truly get Oscar's respect. He does have the handspeed, but speed is almost useless if you are too far out of range against a taller, stronger guy with longer reach (just look at Forrest/Mosley I).

If Oscar comes out, from the first round on, firing that left jab at a high frequency and gets into a rhythm from the outset, Oscar is going to bust that ass and Floyd will be in for a VERY difficult night. He can't let Floyd get comfortable like he was against Baldomir or Gatti. Floyd gets comfortable against slower and less skilled guys he knows he can do whatever he wants against. Oscar is not going to let him get comfortable. Oscar needs to keep his distance, to a point where Floyd has to reach in to hit him, and fire that jab to set up his left hooks and right crosses. I firmly believe a combination, ending with a right hand, is what's going to end this fight in Oscar's favor. The right hand will knock out Floyd Mayweather.

If the fight goes the distance, and I'm wrong about Oscar knocking Floyd out, Oscar will get the decision if he can CONVINCINGLY win FOUR CLEAN ROUNDS. If Oscar can prevent himself from being lured into a street fight, and fights a disciplined fight by applying controlled aggression, I think he is going to be OK. Floyd has been overrated and overhyped IMMENSELY for the past two years now. He is the best P4P fighter in the world; it was a title he won when Roy Jones Jr got KTFO by Antonio Tarver almost three years ago. Oscar De la hoya, who went to a weight class that was out of his element to face the true Middleweight Champion in Bernard Hopkins and did reasonably well before being stopped, has been slightly underrated.

There is SOME soft spots in Floyd's character, soft spots that have not been exposed yet in 37 fights. He's complained about his hand hurting him, as he cried after many of his victories. He's gotten away with this against smaller and less skilled opponents who have not been able to make him pay for these vulnerabilities. Yet, Floyd has still managed to pull of Ws in some big fights. I gotta give him his props. Zab was a good win for Floyd. Zab was a top 5 WW at the time. Baldomir was the Welterweight Champion of the World. Very good win for Floyd. But guess what? Just as Floyd stated that he could've done the same thing as Oscar did to an old Pernell, an old Chavez, and an old Camacho, I also believe Oscar could've knocked those guys (Mitchell, Judah, and Baldomir) the fuck out had he faced them. Oscar has 4 losses on his record (he's officially lost against three guys really), but he's probably faced more top 5 P4P guys in his career than Floyd has.

Put an overrated Floyd Mayweather in against an underrated Oscar De la hoya, and I think a lot of ppl are going to be shocked when they see Oscar pin the first loss on the career of Little Floyd. Floyd will be competitive in the fight, as long as it lasts, but as rounds go by, and Oscar is HITTING Floyd with that left jab, you're going to see Oscar starting to land combinations off of those jabs with greater and greater effect as the fight gets into the middle rounds.

You're going to see that Floyd, possibly hurting his hands again, is going to find himself in a position that he's never been in before. Getting hit, taking more punishment than he's ever taken before against the biggest and most skilled fighter he's faced to date. When he discovers that he's in that ring with a guy who is NOT cooperating with him, that cocky personna will soon transform into that of a concerned, possibly pannicked, individual. That is when he will unravel. Why? Because he doesn't know how to LOSE. He's never faced adversity INSIDE the ring. We've seen some soft spots when he's unraveled outside of the ring and broken down crying. If it can happen outside the ring, it can happen inside the ring. All it takes is the perfect guy, the perfect opponent, who will bring it out of him by putting up the perfect fight to defeat him.

You can mark my words to this. Oscar will do just that to Floyd tomorrow night. Floyd is going to unravel when he discovers that his hands are hurting him, he's getting hit with stiff punches by a fighter who (as the rounds go by) will look more and more like a monster putting up a stiff challenge than a slow cooperative sparring partner (ala Gatti and Baldomir). As the rounds get later and later, it will begin to look like MAN vs BOY. Oscar has been in that position before, so he knows how to deal with it better than his opponent because he's learned through trial and error. Experiencing that type of struggle for the first time in years is going to cost Floyd this fight.

Oscar schools PBF enroute a 10th round KO that'll shock some ppl, but not me. See for yourself tomorrow night.

If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But I have been watching boxing for over 15 years now and I have confidence in my ability to know and understand what I am looking at in matchups and superfights of this magnitude.


LOL, that's a long post. Mine is a lot shorter, I do't really know who wins. I think it's pretty much a pick'em. I just think it's silly for people to think Floyd is some kind of mortal lock. He's not, and the reasons why have been mentioned in this thread already by a few different posts.

[The Hitman]

you guys can try and deny it all you want but if floyd wins this fight... it is the stuff legends are made of

[BKING]

I am picking DLH, but I'm not as confident as you. What's the word with De la Hoya looking slow in his training? Is his heart still in it?

He's gonna look slower than Floyd in training. That's expected. I know that 24/7 show was a great marketing scheme, but they most definitely excluded the best training footage in both camps. How fast or slow they look in training should not be a determining factor in regards to the outcome of the fight.

If one viewed the intensity of the training between Shane Mosley and Vernon Forrest years ago, one might've been sure that Forrest would look like the Frankenstein monster when he got into the ring with Mosley. Mosley is blazing quick. However, we all know what happened in that fight.

I'm not really going by Oscar's speed in training camp. He's going to know how to deal with that speed of Mayweather's. He sparring with one of the fastest fighters in the game in preparation for this fight in Mosley. Oscar must fight a disciplined fight.

This fight doesn't come down to Mayweather's speed. Of course speed kills, but good timing and a long stiff jab can also neutralize speed (once again going back to Forrest/Mosley as an example). It comes down to Mayweather dealing with a guy who is the most skilled he has ever faced, most experienced guy in BIG fights that he's ever faced, can ALMOST match him in speed, and is bigger and stronger than himself.

As Val pointed out, Mayweather has been stunned by guys who have been smaller, slower, and less skilled than Oscar. Oscar throws punches in BUNCHES really well, and he STILL has the punching power to end Mayweather's night with ONE punch.

[O-Dogg33]

Oscar often "wins" rounds with bullshit flurries that misses. Also as someone else mentioned in this thread, i't a GBP. Anyone pay attention to the scores on Oscar's last show? They were pretty awfull. That is why Floyd needs to dominate to win IMO.


More excuses give it a rest already. Oscar never gets decisions because of his popularity. If that was the case he'd have one loss right now. He was the way more popular fighter in both the Trinidad and Mosley II fight and that didn't help him out.

If GBP has such power than I'm pretty sure they would have found a way to give MAB the decision over Marquez since MAB is the more popular established fighter.

Blame judges for not scoring how you saw it if you want but saying Oscar gets all the "calls" is inaccurate.

[EBIHARA63]

More excuses give it a rest already. Oscar never gets decisions because of his popularity. If that was the case he'd have one loss right now. He was the way more popular fighter in both the Trinidad and Mosley II fight and that didn't help him out.

If GBP has such power than I'm pretty sure they would have found a way to give MAB the decision over Marquez since MAB is the more popular established fighter.

Blame judges for not scoring how you saw it if you want but saying Oscar gets all the "calls" is inaccurate.Agree to an extent,but Oscar is quick to complain about decisions that don,t go his way-blames corruption,but doesn,t want to talk about his lucky breaks ie Quartey,Whittaker and Sturm.:555:

[EBIHARA63]

More excuses give it a rest already. Oscar never gets decisions because of his popularity. If that was the case he'd have one loss right now. He was the way more popular fighter in both the Trinidad and Mosley II fight and that didn't help him out.

If GBP has such power than I'm pretty sure they would have found a way to give MAB the decision over Marquez since MAB is the more popular established fighter.

Blame judges for not scoring how you saw it if you want but saying Oscar gets all the "calls" is inaccurate.Popularity sure helped Oscar in the Whittaker fight-he even said so himself:nod:

[Valdosta]

More excuses give it a rest already. Oscar never gets decisions because of his popularity. If that was the case he'd have one loss right now. He was the way more popular fighter in both the Trinidad and Mosley II fight and that didn't help him out.

If GBP has such power than I'm pretty sure they would have found a way to give MAB the decision over Marquez since MAB is the more popular established fighter.

Blame judges for not scoring how you saw it if you want but saying Oscar gets all the "calls" is inaccurate.

These other fights with Oscar that you are referring to with Oscar weren't promoted by him. Also, MAB talking retirement makes it better if JMM wins. How about the other 2 fights on the card? You think those cards were fair to? Regardless, I am not making excuses for anything. Unlike you who is just talking, I have the balls to put money where my mouth is. Excuses? No I am explaining several of the reasons I bet Oscar and the fact that he is the promoter of this fight is 1 of them.

[sanchito]

Unlike you who is just talking, I have the balls to put money where my mouth is.
You always pull that...not all of us like gambling...just because his opinion differs from yours and he refrains from betting on it doesn't mean he's wrong or a coward.

[O-Dogg33]

These other fights with Oscar that you are referring to with Oscar weren't promoted by him. Also, MAB talking retirement makes it better if JMM wins. How about the other 2 fights on the card? You think those cards were fair to? Regardless, I am not making excuses for anything. Unlike you who is just talking, I have the balls to put money where my mouth is. Excuses? No I am explaining several of the reasons I bet Oscar and the fact that he is the promoter of this fight is 1 of them.

I've put my money down on Oscar so what? I'm not making threads trying to build in excuses if he loses.

[Valdosta]

You always pull that...not all of us like gambling...just because his opinion differs from yours and he refrains from betting on it doesn't mean he's wrong or a coward.

Who cares. I get tired of people calling me biased and telling me I am making excuses.......WHEN I BET ON THE OTHER GUY!! That's just silly.

[O-Dogg33]

No I am explaining several of the reasons I bet Oscar and the fact that he is the promoter of this fight is 1 of them.

The only other fight that he promoted and was a part of was the Mayorga fight. That didn't go to the scorecards did it?

[Valdosta]

I've put my money down on Oscar so what? I'm not making threads trying to build in excuses if he loses.

Anyone who gambles and don't pay attention to the promotion is a fucking idiot.

[Valdosta]

The only other fight that he promoted and was a part of was the Mayorga fight. That didn't go to the scorecards did it?

So what? That has absoltely NOTHING to do with this fight. Christ, I feel like I am talking to little kids. The fact is there was funny scorecards on Oscar's last promoted card. That can't be denied.

[O-Dogg33]

Anyone who gambles and don't pay attention to the promotion is a fucking idiot.

You're the one saying how tough you are cause you put money down not me.

[Valdosta]

You're the one saying how tough you are cause you put money down not me.

Like I said I feel like I am talking to kids. OK, so from now on when I bet I won't take the promotion into consideration. I bet I will do real good from now on :lol: Not sure why you are trying to pretend that's a non factor. In boxing promotions are often a BIG factor.

[O-Dogg33]

Like I said I feel like I am talking to kids. OK, so from now on when I bet I won't take the promotion into consideration. I bet I will do real good from now on :lol: Not sure why you are trying to pretend that's a non factor. In boxing promotions are often a BIG factor.

You're the gambler, I guess you know something I don't. If that's the case I feel better knowing Oscar will get the decision!

[Smokin]

I'm shocked! This is coming from what has appeared to be over the past two years or so to be a Floyd groupie. I'm glad you see it the way it is though. I realize Floyd trains like no other athlete in preparation for his fights, but throughout the build up leading to this showdown, Floyd seems more over-confident than I have seen him in any of his previous bouts. He's usually a confident individual, but it's progressed to the stage of insecure cockiness.

Based on a show made to hype the fight? Floyd is fit and ready for 12 hard rounds. You can take that to the bank.

Has Oscar ever been ready for 12 hard rounds in his life?


Oscar De la hoya is not only bigger, but also much more skilled than these other guys Floyd has faced in recent years. Oscar's handspeed is also underrated. Floyd is going to be a little shocked when he realizes that Oscar can ALMOST match his handspeed. I do believe Oscar is going to win this fight. Floyd doesn't have the punching power to truly get Oscar's respect. He does have the handspeed, but speed is almost useless if you are too far out of range against a taller, stronger guy with longer reach (just look at Forrest/Mosley I).

a. Floyd dont rely on speed, he has it, but UNLIKE guys like Jones Jr, Judah, Mosely, and Oscar, he has an unbelievably solid base behind the speed. He doesnt get away with things because of his speed alone, unlike the others.

b. Zab was faster, but again, Floyd is also extremely well schooled. How did Oscar look the last time he was the slower guy? How long ago was that?

c. DLH dont like getting hit by anyone. If he wasnt prepared to get hit by an old Pernell in 97, what makes you think he is prepared to get hit by Floyd in 07? DLH will respect Floyds punches, because Oscar respects everyones punches. He never has showed the willingness to take one to land one, something he will have to do in this fight.

d. Forrest-Mosley is a horrible analogy, and analogy put forward by someone looking for reasons to select their prefered guy. Forrest was all about range, inlcuding an awesome right hand from distance which was the difference in the fights. Oscar has a horrible right hand. Mosley isnt as well schooled as PBF.

Forrests best punch = long range right hand from distance.

Oscar's best punch = left hook from in range (obviously).

Chalk and Cheese.

Why not mention the multitude of fights whereby a shorter, more schooled guy beats the taller guy?

Why not mention Oscar v Shane, a fight in which all of your above paragraph could have been used to make a case for Oscar in. Didnt work out like that, did it?

Oscar isnt as good as Forrest, from the outside, if so he would have beaten Shane. Thats was Forrests total strength. Oscar, while having a nice jab, doesnt fight that way. He cant, primarily because my grandmother has a better right hand than him and his whole career he has relied on a peach of a left hook.


If Oscar comes out, from the first round on, firing that left jab at a high frequency and gets into a rhythm from the outset, Oscar is going to bust that ass and Floyd will be in for a VERY difficult night. He can't let Floyd get comfortable like he was against Baldomir or Gatti. Floyd gets comfortable against slower and less skilled guys he knows he can do whatever he wants against. Oscar is not going to let him get comfortable. Oscar needs to keep his distance, to a point where Floyd has to reach in to hit him, and fire that jab to set up his left hooks and right crosses. I firmly believe a combination, ending with a right hand, is what's going to end this fight in Oscar's favor. The right hand will knock out Floyd Mayweather.

Yea, of course it will. It has never busted a grape, but now it is going to KO arguably the best defensive fighter he has ever faced?

Oscar will get in range. Why? He has to land that left hook - he has relied on it all his career, and always reverts to it when the chips start falling around him. I agree he NEEDS the right hand against someone like Floyd, it is the obvious punch against that crossarm defence, but this is why this fight is so wrong for Oscar on so many levels. He hasnt got a right hand worth a pinch of shit at this level.

Floyd gets comfortable? Or Floyd cruises? Floyd has been between various gears in many of his fights. This is Floyds superbowl, you honestly think he is going to sleepwalk through this one?

Again, you're looking for arguments that dont make sense.


If the fight goes the distance, and I'm wrong about Oscar knocking Floyd out, Oscar will get the decision if he can CONVINCINGLY win FOUR CLEAN ROUNDS. If Oscar can prevent himself from being lured into a street fight, and fights a disciplined fight by applying controlled aggression, I think he is going to be OK. Floyd has been overrated and overhyped IMMENSELY for the past two years now. He is the best P4P fighter in the world; it was a title he won when Roy Jones Jr got KTFO by Antonio Tarver almost three years ago. Oscar De la hoya, who went to a weight class that was out of his element to face the true Middleweight Champion in Bernard Hopkins and did reasonably well before being stopped, has been slightly underrated.

Floyd has been "and overhyped IMMENSELY for the past two years now" yet Oscar has looked like Ray Robinson in the past FIVE years?

Oscar did reasonably well against Hopkins, not before being stopped, but before RUNNING OUT OF GAS, once he started to slow, that fight was over.

Oscar has no staying power, probably the #1 thing that has plauged him in his career at this level.


There is SOME soft spots in Floyd's character, soft spots that have not been exposed yet in 37 fights. He's complained about his hand hurting him, as he cried after many of his victories. He's gotten away with this against smaller and less skilled opponents who have not been able to make him pay for these vulnerabilities. Yet, Floyd has still managed to pull of Ws in some big fights. I gotta give him his props. Zab was a good win for Floyd. Zab was a top 5 WW at the time. Baldomir was the Welterweight Champion of the World. Very good win for Floyd. But guess what? Just as Floyd stated that he could've done the same thing as Oscar did to an old Pernell, an old Chavez, and an old Camacho, I also believe Oscar could've knocked those guys (Mitchell, Judah, and Baldomir) the fuck out had he faced them. Oscar has 4 losses on his record (he's officially lost against three guys really), but he's probably faced more top 5 P4P guys in his career than Floyd has.

You're talking as if this is a mythical matchup between the two in their primes.

The fights you mentioned for Floyd just happened. How long ago were the fights you mentioned for Oscar? In this century?

This ISNT a fight between a prime Oscar and a prime Mayweather.


Put an overrated Floyd Mayweather in against an underrated Oscar De la hoya, and I think a lot of ppl are going to be shocked when they see Oscar pin the first loss on the career of Little Floyd. Floyd will be competitive in the fight, as long as it lasts, but as rounds go by, and Oscar is HITTING Floyd with that left jab, you're going to see Oscar starting to land combinations off of those jabs with greater and greater effect as the fight gets into the middle rounds.

Great in theory and in fantasy worlds, but the proof is in the pudding. Oscar is not a stayer, has never been, and will fade as the fight goes. How many rounds can Oscar fight at the level he needs to in this fight? Thats what you have to ask yourself.

He always has, and always will.

If he cant hurt Floyd within the first 4 or so rounds, he cant win.


You're going to see that Floyd, possibly hurting his hands again, is going to find himself in a position that he's never been in before. Getting hit, taking more punishment than he's ever taken before against the biggest and most skilled fighter he's faced to date. When he discovers that he's in that ring with a guy who is NOT cooperating with him, that cocky personna will soon transform into that of a concerned, possibly pannicked, individual. That is when he will unravel. Why? Because he doesn't know how to LOSE. He's never faced adversity INSIDE the ring. We've seen some soft spots when he's unraveled outside of the ring and broken down crying. If it can happen outside the ring, it can happen inside the ring. All it takes is the perfect guy, the perfect opponent, who will bring it out of him by putting up the perfect fight to defeat him.

Floyds hands have been a problem, but it is a falacy to base an opnion of a person based on what you think MAY happen in relation to an injury.

Being untested in an area doesnt mean you fail in that area.

And Oscar has been flawless everytime he faced adversity?

If you are going to bring things up, bring them up for both, not just Floyd.


You can mark my words to this. Oscar will do just that to Floyd tomorrow night. Floyd is going to unravel when he discovers that his hands are hurting him, he's getting hit with stiff punches by a fighter who (as the rounds go by) will look more and more like a monster putting up a stiff challenge than a slow cooperative sparring partner (ala Gatti and Baldomir). As the rounds get later and later, it will begin to look like MAN vs BOY. Oscar has been in that position before, so he knows how to deal with it better than his opponent because he's learned through trial and error. Experiencing that type of struggle for the first time in years is going to cost Floyd this fight.

Oscar schools PBF enroute a 10th round KO that'll shock some ppl, but not me. See for yourself tomorrow night.

Cooperative sparring partner? Need I remind you of how Oscar has handled certain challenging scenarios?

Again, Oscar has proved time and time again that as the fight goes on, unless he has hurt you, he will fade and fade and fade, quite the opposite of looking like a Monster.


If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But I have been watching boxing for over 15 years now and I have confidence in my ability to know and understand what I am looking at in matchups and superfights of this magnitude.

As we all have.

Overall, you're giving Oscar every benefit of EVERY DOUBT over Floyd, combined with all his strengths that he has often shown perhaps once in his prime, years ago, to come to the conclusion you want to come to.

And too much of it doesnt make sense.

Your opinion is filled with too much emotion. You have to detach emotion from all arguments and think with reason.

Ive recently sat down and watched both of their previous 5 or so fights. Let me tell you, when sitting and watching without emotion, Oscar has not looked good for a long long time.

Your post would make more sense in a mythical p4p matchup, but that is not what we have in front of us.

Oscar may have moments early, but Floyd will come on and win an easy decision, stinking the joint out in the process.

[BKING]

How long did that all take? I hope you're not at work. I still stand by my assessment. :rotf:

[BKING]

Based on a show made to hype the fight? Floyd is fit and ready for 12 hard rounds. You can take that to the bank.

Has Oscar ever been ready for 12 hard rounds in his life?



a. Floyd dont rely on speed, he has it, but UNLIKE guys like Jones Jr, Judah, Mosely, and Oscar, he has an unbelievably solid base behind the speed. He doesnt get away with things because of his speed alone, unlike the others.

b. Zab was faster, but again, Floyd is also extremely well schooled. How did Oscar look the last time he was the slower guy? How long ago was that?

c. DLH dont like getting hit by anyone. If he wasnt prepared to get hit by an old Pernell in 97, what makes you think he is prepared to get hit by Floyd in 07? DLH will respect Floyds punches, because Oscar respects everyones punches. He never has showed the willingness to take one to land one, something he will have to do in this fight.

d. Forrest-Mosley is a horrible analogy, and analogy put forward by someone looking for reasons to select their prefered guy. Forrest was all about range, inlcuding an awesome right hand from distance which was the difference in the fights. Oscar has a horrible right hand. Mosley isnt as well schooled as PBF.

Forrests best punch = long range right hand from distance.

Oscar's best punch = left hook from in range (obviously).

Chalk and Cheese.

Why not mention the multitude of fights whereby a shorter, more schooled guy beats the taller guy?

Why not mention Oscar v Shane, a fight in which all of your above paragraph could have been used to make a case for Oscar in. Didnt work out like that, did it?

Oscar isnt as good as Forrest, from the outside, if so he would have beaten Shane. Thats was Forrests total strength. Oscar, while having a nice jab, doesnt fight that way. He cant, primarily because my grandmother has a better right hand than him and his whole career he has relied on a peach of a left hook.



Yea, of course it will. It has never busted a grape, but now it is going to KO arguably the best defensive fighter he has ever faced?

Oscar will get in range. Why? He has to land that left hook - he has relied on it all his career, and always reverts to it when the chips start falling around him. I agree he NEEDS the right hand against someone like Floyd, it is the obvious punch against that crossarm defence, but this is why this fight is so wrong for Oscar on so many levels. He hasnt got a right hand worth a pinch of shit at this level.

Floyd gets comfortable? Or Floyd cruises? Floyd has been between various gears in many of his fights. This is Floyds superbowl, you honestly think he is going to sleepwalk through this one?

Again, you're looking for arguments that dont make sense.



Floyd has been "and overhyped IMMENSELY for the past two years now" yet Oscar has looked like Ray Robinson in the past FIVE years?

Oscar did reasonably well against Hopkins, not before being stopped, but before RUNNING OUT OF GAS, once he started to slow, that fight was over.

Oscar has no staying power, probably the #1 thing that has plauged him in his career at this level.



You're talking as if this is a mythical matchup between the two in their primes.

The fights you mentioned for Floyd just happened. How long ago were the fights you mentioned for Oscar? In this century?

This ISNT a fight between a prime Oscar and a prime Mayweather.



Great in theory and in fantasy worlds, but the proof is in the pudding. Oscar is not a stayer, has never been, and will fade as the fight goes. How many rounds can Oscar fight at the level he needs to in this fight? Thats what you have to ask yourself.

He always has, and always will.

If he cant hurt Floyd within the first 4 or so rounds, he cant win.



Floyds hands have been a problem, but it is a falacy to base an opnion of a person based on what you think MAY happen in relation to an injury.

Being untested in an area doesnt mean you fail in that area.

And Oscar has been flawless everytime he faced adversity?

If you are going to bring things up, bring them up for both, not just Floyd.



Cooperative sparring partner? Need I remind you of how Oscar has handled certain challenging scenarios?

Again, Oscar has proved time and time again that as the fight goes on, unless he has hurt you, he will fade and fade and fade, quite the opposite of looking like a Monster.



As we all have.

Overall, you're giving Oscar every benefit of EVERY DOUBT over Floyd, combined with all his strengths that he has often shown perhaps once in his prime, years ago, to come to the conclusion you want to come to.

And too much of it doesnt make sense.

Your opinion is filled with too much emotion. You have to detach emotion from all arguments and think with reason.

Ive recently sat down and watched both of their previous 5 or so fights. Let me tell you, when sitting and watching without emotion, Oscar has not looked good for a long long time.

Your post would make more sense in a mythical p4p matchup, but that is not what we have in front of us.

Oscar may have moments early, but Floyd will come on and win an easy decision, stinking the joint out in the process.


How long did that all take? I hope you're not at work. I still stand by my assessment. Oscar is going to OWN him. :rotf:

[Smokin]

haha yep Im at work! Sat morning here! How did you know? haha

Floyd's gonna stink the joint out and win by the length of the straight!

I really hope for boxing's sake it's a good fight tho.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

you guys can try and deny it all you want but if floyd wins this fight... it is the stuff legends are made of

I'm denying it right here. Just like I denied it when everyone was saying that if RJJ beat Ruiz it would be the stuff of legends.

The only fights Oscar has looked good in/won have been against slow ass, punching bag Mayorga and past his prime/punchy Vargas. He dropped a decision to Mosley, got KO'd by Hopkins, got a gift vs. Sturm and eked by Castillejo. What exactly has DLH done in the past few years to think that beating him at this point is a legendary exercise? Mosley came up from lightweight and beat him twice, does that make Mosley the stuff of legends?

bollocks.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

Ive recently sat down and watched both of their previous 5 or so fights. Let me tell you, when sitting and watching without emotion, Oscar has not looked good for a long long time.

Your post would make more sense in a mythical p4p matchup, but that is not what we have in front of us.

Oscar may have moments early, but Floyd will come on and win an easy decision, stinking the joint out in the process.

Excellent analysis (didn't want to repost the whole thing as it's pretty long). I don't know where all this "DLH is a monster" talk is coming from. He's been in semi-retirement for the last 5 years and has NOT looked that good even in the fights he won.

Trinidad beat Whitaker like a child. Nobody talks like it made Trinidad a legend, pretty much everyone will admit (even a Whitaker hater like myself) that Whitaker was way past his prime for that fight. Fighters age, they decline and they get beaten far easier and by opponents who may not have beaten them before. It's not that difficult to understand.

Yet people are coming in here and talking like Oscar is in his prime and that Floyd beating him at this point will be earth shattering. It's a great win for Floyd and certainly will look good on his resume, but Oscar is past it and so many people here are going to be shamefaced on Saturday night when they see how badly DLH gets outclassed.

[Manowar]

As Shane Mosely said...this figjt is about speed and power. Oscar has both. Mayweather doesnt have the power Oscar does. Also, this hasnt been brought up in a while but I'm surprised that mayweather agreed to the reyes gloves. Those little 10 ouncers will give ODL so much power that when he finally connects with mayweather, maywerather will be stunned and will drop. It'll take a few rounds for ODL to land that first big shot. Once it lands, Mayweathers legs will be like jello and his speed will quickly disappear. His speed may get through Oscars defense in the beginning rounds, but his power wont get to ODLH in early rounds...ODLS is the bigger and stronger fighter even at 34 and hes fought bigger and stronger fighters than mayweather. Also to focus on the gloves again, Mayweather has broken his hand before so agreeing to use those gloves was stupid...Mayweather may seriously hurt his hand using those gloves.

[Michael Matos]

I see way to many people saying that ODLH has no real chance. Huh? Floyd has never fought at 154, never fought anyone as big as ODLH and fought anyone with ODLH's power and speed combination. Floyd HAS to fight an absolute perfect fight to win and even then he could lose. Sure, speed kills but ODLH does not have slow hands. Floyd has gotten hit by slower guys than ODLH before. :555: He's been hurt by littler guys than ODLH as well. :555:

Maybe I'm missing some gamblelese here and I lost something in translation, but to me the question you are asking is why is Mayweather the favorite. It may come as a shock to you but the only person overrating Mayweather Jr. is Mayweather jr.

[The Hitman]

I'm denying it right here. Just like I denied it when everyone was saying that if RJJ beat Ruiz it would be the stuff of legends.

The only fights Oscar has looked good in/won have been against slow ass, punching bag Mayorga and past his prime/punchy Vargas. He dropped a decision to Mosley, got KO'd by Hopkins, got a gift vs. Sturm and eked by Castillejo. What exactly has DLH done in the past few years to think that beating him at this point is a legendary exercise? Mosley came up from lightweight and beat him twice, does that make Mosley the stuff of legends?

bollocks.

And by denying it, you are full of crap. you are comparing JOHN RUIZ to Oscar De la Hoya? good gracious man you should be banned from watching boxing if you believe these are comparable foes!

DLH "eeked" by Castillejo???? You want me to send you a tape of that fight? DLH dominated and dropped him in the 12th round as well. He was robbed against Mosley in the rematch as well...

At 160 i agree, he has not looked good at ALL. Gift against Sturm and a staged loss to hopkins. still a loss to hopkins is nothing to be ashamed of.

And actually, Mosley's win over DLH in the first match was pretty significant. It's not often that a lightweight champ goes up to capture the welterweight crown. still, mosley was/is a HUGE lightweight moving up to a division most everyone felt he belonged... Floyd is pushing his luck as it is going up to welterweight... he knows it too, fighting either slow poke Baldomir or guys who were former jr welters. he is going up even further in weight and its known he can't punch that well at higher weights and he has brittle hands to boot.

DLH is still an elite fighter... he is ten times the fighter john ruiz ever was or ever will be too.

Hitman

[Remus]

you guys can try and deny it all you want but if floyd wins this fight... it is the stuff legends are made of

precisely the sort of thing nancy's matchmakers were counting on. the NAME of de la hoya being the bigger factor than the current ability of the same name. you have to admire the selctive matchmaing of the man. it is genius.

Q: how many rounds has de la hoya fought since hopkins way back in september 2004 ?
A: 5 and a half.

then look who that was against...ricardo mayorga who stood there to trade, begging to be hit. totally different animal. the fight before that ? a phonebooth fighter who wanted to mix it up. either of these guys anything like mayweather ? ahhhh no.

so...whats so legendary for beating a guy who is older, slower, way past his prime and grossly innactive ? answer. nothing. nothing at all.

floyd SHOULD win and SHOULD win handily. anyone who says DLH has NO CHANCE is obviously dreaming. even a rusty old dlh is a force to be reckoned with but his chances are very slim indeed.

[Valdosta]

LOL. ODLH "eeking" by Castilliejo is probably the most inaccurate boxing statement I have ever saw.

[sanchito]

LOL. ODLH "eeking" by Castilliejo is probably the most inaccurate boxing statement I have ever saw.
Unless ODLH was scared I would have to agree...lol....Malapropisms are funny.

[EBIHARA63]

Unless ODLH was scared I would have to agree...lol....Malapropisms are funny.Are the Malapropisms related to the Hydra,s:555:

[sanchito]

Are the Malapropisms related to the Hydra,s:555:
Well judging from your grammar....yes!:mex:

[EBIHARA63]

Well judging from your grammar....yes!:mex:smart ass:lol:

[Remus]

lmao

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

And by denying it, you are full of crap. you are comparing JOHN RUIZ to Oscar De la Hoya? good gracious man you should be banned from watching boxing if you believe these are comparable foes!

DLH "eeked" by Castillejo???? You want me to send you a tape of that fight? DLH dominated and dropped him in the 12th round as well. He was robbed against Mosley in the rematch as well...

At 160 i agree, he has not looked good at ALL. Gift against Sturm and a staged loss to hopkins. still a loss to hopkins is nothing to be ashamed of.

And actually, Mosley's win over DLH in the first match was pretty significant. It's not often that a lightweight champ goes up to capture the welterweight crown. still, mosley was/is a HUGE lightweight moving up to a division most everyone felt he belonged... Floyd is pushing his luck as it is going up to welterweight... he knows it too, fighting either slow poke Baldomir or guys who were former jr welters. he is going up even further in weight and its known he can't punch that well at higher weights and he has brittle hands to boot.

DLH is still an elite fighter... he is ten times the fighter john ruiz ever was or ever will be too.

Hitman

Yeah, that's right I'm making a comparison between DLH and Ruiz. The common denominator isn't the quality of the fighter, it's the H Y P E.

Don't sit here and try to say that many folks in the commonity weren't riding the Roy jock before the Ruiz fight (and even after). I saw lots of comments in here talking like the fight would be one of the biggest accomplishments in boxing history, when anyone with a brain knew that Ruiz was garbage. Fat assed Toney proved it by humiliating Ruiz just a couple of years later.

DLH is being hyped by some on this site like he's a prime fighter in prime condition. Several of us recognize DLH's inactivity, his injuries, his age, the quality of his performances over the last few years, his lack of stamina, and the just plain lack of fire in the belly (except against punching bag Mayorga).

Floyd is taking a risk, any fighter has to take a risk to get paid the big bucks. What most of us can see (at least according to the prediction count)si that it's a controlled risk and a calculated risk. No matter what DLH talks about his legacy, it's about the freaking wads of cash he's going to make from this fight.

[Ringside]

De La Hoyas legacy fight would have been beating Hopkins in his later yeras..Tito early on..both lost.....not this one..get real folks..Ringo

[The Hitman]

Yeah, that's right I'm making a comparison between DLH and Ruiz. The common denominator isn't the quality of the fighter, it's the H Y P E.

Don't sit here and try to say that many folks in the commonity weren't riding the Roy jock before the Ruiz fight (and even after). I saw lots of comments in here talking like the fight would be one of the biggest accomplishments in boxing history, when anyone with a brain knew that Ruiz was garbage. Fat assed Toney proved it by humiliating Ruiz just a couple of years later.

DLH is being hyped by some on this site like he's a prime fighter in prime condition. Several of us recognize DLH's inactivity, his injuries, his age, the quality of his performances over the last few years, his lack of stamina, and the just plain lack of fire in the belly (except against punching bag Mayorga).

Floyd is taking a risk, any fighter has to take a risk to get paid the big bucks. What most of us can see (at least according to the prediction count)si that it's a controlled risk and a calculated risk. No matter what DLH talks about his legacy, it's about the freaking wads of cash he's going to make from this fight.

roy jones relative to john ruiz and mayweather relative to DLH are completely non-comparable... if you arer saying both Ruiz and DLH were/have been over hyped... even if its true, the difference between the two is monumental.

floyd beating DLH is a hundred times more impressive than jones beating ruiz.

NO one recognizes this illusion of yours that DLH "eked by Castillejo," i would challenge any notion that DLH even lost to Mosley. DLH's fights at 160 are irrelevant to THIS fight... his fights at 154 are relevant, and at 154 i haven't seen him lose a fight

DLH is not prime but what is key here is that mayweather is two weight classes out of his element. he won't be able to hurt DLH, at least not significantly, so he has to out skill him.

DLH hasn't lost THAT much handspeed, aside from Zab Judah i think he is probably the fastest guy Floyd has fought (maybe corley too), he is the smartest fighter, most experienced, best combination of speed AND power that floyd has ever fought.

[Remus]

good work, ignore the innactivity facts. you're as selective as nancy.

[Mark G]

roy jones relative to john ruiz and mayweather relative to DLH are completely non-comparable... if you arer saying both Ruiz and DLH were/have been over hyped... even if its true, the difference between the two is monumental.

floyd beating DLH is a hundred times more impressive than jones beating ruiz.

NO one recognizes this illusion of yours that DLH "eked by Castillejo," i would challenge any notion that DLH even lost to Mosley. DLH's fights at 160 are irrelevant to THIS fight... his fights at 154 are relevant, and at 154 i haven't seen him lose a fight

DLH is not prime but what is key here is that mayweather is two weight classes out of his element. he won't be able to hurt DLH, at least not significantly, so he has to out skill him.

DLH hasn't lost THAT much handspeed, aside from Zab Judah i think he is probably the fastest guy Floyd has fought (maybe corley too), he is the smartest fighter, most experienced, best combination of speed AND power that floyd has ever fought.

How do you think his speed looked against Mayorga?

A lot of people say he looked impressive in that fight, but I think the fact that DLH is well-schooled made him look faster than he really was. Still, he didn't look slow by any means, and still has impressive hand speed, etc. He's nowhere near being a shot fighter, he can still kick some serious ass. That's how I see anyways.

[sanchito]

I'm watching PBF's fights on ESPN...Mayweather is ALWAYS getting booed, even in his 4 rounders...crazy.

[Remus]

How do you think his speed looked against Mayorga? .

he looked great cos he didn't have to try and find mayorga.

[The Hitman]

How do you think his speed looked against Mayorga?

A lot of people say he looked impressive in that fight, but I think the fact that DLH is well-schooled made him look faster than he really was. Still, he didn't look slow by any means, and still has impressive hand speed, etc. He's nowhere near being a shot fighter, he can still kick some serious ass. That's how I see anyways.


I agree... he isn't as fast as he once was, and the fact that he was in there with Mayorga made him look faster than he really is.... but just as you said his handspeed is still impressive and he can still kick some ass.

[The Hitman]

good work, ignore the innactivity facts. you're as selective as nancy.

inactivity is the only leg you guys have to stand on, imo. yea he hasn;t fought in a year big fuckin whoop. that makes him comparable to john ruiz?? haha. would it stop your whining if he had fought a scrub inbetween Mayorga and now?

i mean its not a prime DLH- he is still an excellent opponent.

[Michael Matos]

inactivity is the only leg you guys have to stand on, imo. yea he hasn;t fought in a year big fuckin whoop. that makes him comparable to john ruiz?? haha. would it stop your whining if he had fought a scrub inbetween Mayorga and now?

i mean its not a prime DLH- he is still an excellent opponent.

The way Boxing is structured these days is De La Hoya inactive or well rested?

[Remus]

inactivity is the only leg you guys have to stand on, imo. yea he hasn;t fought in a year big fuckin whoop. that makes him comparable to john ruiz?? haha. would it stop your whining if he had fought a scrub inbetween Mayorga and now?

i mean its not a prime DLH- he is still an excellent opponent.

what the hell does this have to do with john ruiz ? he's fought 5 rnds against a guy that was standing in front of him in 2 years and he is at the END of his career. those are the facts.

[The Hitman]

what the hell does this have to do with john ruiz ? he's fought 5 rnds against a guy that was standing in front of him in 2 years and he is at the END of his career. those are the facts.

the other facts are all laid out above, like i said- inactivity is the only leg you guys have to stand on. according to you guys this inactivity, or well restedness as mentioned, has dropped DLH to a complete non factor against Floyd. A year out of the ring nullifies all of DLH's excellent qualities as a fighter (and the bigger man, which you have to be completely dense to ignore) and erases the historical significance of this fight completely? get outta here. that's bullshit and you know it.

sorry to bring up ruiz, i shouldn't lump you in with bouffant and his illusions... altho your own illusions are almost as ludicrous

Hitman

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

the other facts are all laid out above, like i said- inactivity is the only leg you guys have to stand on. according to you guys this inactivity, or well restedness as mentioned, has dropped DLH to a complete non factor against Floyd. A year out of the ring nullifies all of DLH's excellent qualities as a fighter (and the bigger man, which you have to be completely dense to ignore) and erases the historical significance of this fight completely? get outta here. that's bullshit and you know it.

sorry to bring up ruiz, i shouldn't lump you in with bouffant and his illusions... altho your own illusions are almost as ludicrous

Hitman

I have no illusions. I watched the Castillejo fight. He did not look impressive at all until the 12th when he got a knockdown. The scoring margins were wider than they should have been and everyone at the time said so. I defy you to find anyone who classifies that fight as a scintillating DLH victory. It was a dull fight and DLH squeezed out an unimpressive victory on the cards.

And since you have forgotten, here is DLHs record since 2003:

Ricardo Mayorga W TKO 6
Bernard Hopkins L KO 9
Felix Sturm W UD 12
Shane Mosley L UD 12
Luis Ramon Campas W TKO 7

He's fought 5 times in the last four years. Two of those fights are losses (1 by KO) and one of the victories (Sturm) many feel was a gift on the cards. Which of his victories in that group make you feel like he'll have enough to beat Floyd? Was it vs. Hopkins? Oh yeah, that's right he got stopped. Was it when he looked pretty good vs. Mosley in 2003? Oh yeah, he lost and even if you think he deserved the win, it apparently wasn't decisive enough.

DLH is better quality than Ruiz, I never said otherwise. He's also a lot closer to Floyd in weight than RJJ was to Ruiz. And just like that fight, the bigger guy is being made out to be more of a threat than he should be.

Like we've said many times over. It's not just one year that he's been inactive, it's this entire decade. He's fought exactly 10 times in 7 years and those years have been plagued with injury, with loss, with several unimpressive outings and few impressive wins. Beating the likes of Gatti, Campas, Mayorga and Vargas doesn't mean anything when talking about a slick and speedy fighter like Floyd.

Floyd is too fast and too good defensively. He'll be on his bike all night. He may have a few close calls in the early rounds, but by the mid to late rounds, he's going to make DLH look like an old man. Mark my words.

[The Hitman]

Valdosta had it right- DLH eking by Castillejo is one of the dumbest boxing statements ever made. its no use trying to backtrack now, DLH dominated that fight.

Out of all those fights you list, 154 is what is important here. And those 3 fights are all wins in my book. a close fight with shane mosley (whether he won or lost, it was close) means that DLH is on the level of ruiz? haha. certainly it wasn;t a decisive performance against mosley... but mosley is also an elite fighter who is MUCH stronger than mayweather.

what i have seen of DLH at 154 is the best combination of speed and power that Mayweather has ever seen, a fighter who floyd cannot hurt or match up in any way shape or form in terms of strength, a smarter and more experienced fighter than floyd has ever fought. If you beat this man it is a special acheivement (and when the hell could you ever say that about john ruiz), he's not an old man he is 34 flippin years old.

Hitman

[Rabid Kimba]

Floyd is too fast and too good defensively. He'll be on his bike all night. He may have a few close calls in the early rounds, but by the mid to late rounds, he's going to make DLH look like an old man. Mark my words.

I just did.

:lol:

[Ringside]

I'm watching the reruns and six years ago when he was younger and fought Vargas he kept his hands low for a lot of the fight and Vargas scored well early on near the ropes even though he was much slower. If an older De La Hoya drops his hand anywhere near that he will get tatooed...Ringo

[The Hitman]

I'm watching the reruns and six years ago when he was younger and fought Vargas he kept his hands low for a lot of the fight and Vargas scored well early on near the ropes even though he was much slower. If an older De La Hoya drops his hand anywhere near that he will get tatooed...Ringo

to a point yes... but you guys are making DLH out to be arturo gatti here.... GATTI got tattoed, DLH will not get tattooed like that. DLH will also not be significantly hurt by floyd's punches either.

[Ringside]

Many folks thought Hopkins would fight dirty as before that fight and not box Tito. Tito was huge favorite. Check the archives. lol....I said Hopkins would box Tito and he did and got a TKO.

I say this...PBF will box ODLH close up and not run..and will hurt him in the process...I predicted wide decision but I could see Oscar getting cut up and maybe even a TKO as such. Ringo

[Jack1000]

the other facts are all laid out above, like i said- inactivity is the only leg you guys have to stand on. according to you guys this inactivity, or well restedness as mentioned, has dropped DLH to a complete non factor against Floyd. A year out of the ring nullifies all of DLH's excellent qualities as a fighter (and the bigger man, which you have to be completely dense to ignore) and erases the historical significance of this fight completely? get outta here. that's bullshit and you know it.

sorry to bring up ruiz, i shouldn't lump you in with bouffant and his illusions... altho your own illusions are almost as ludicrous

Hitman

Hitman,

Is your pick still a draw, although Floyd will deserve the win?

Jack

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

Valdosta had it right- DLH eking by Castillejo is one of the dumbest boxing statements ever made. its no use trying to backtrack now, DLH dominated that fight.

Out of all those fights you list, 154 is what is important here. And those 3 fights are all wins in my book. a close fight with shane mosley (whether he won or lost, it was close) means that DLH is on the level of ruiz? haha. certainly it wasn;t a decisive performance against mosley... but mosley is also an elite fighter who is MUCH stronger than mayweather.

what i have seen of DLH at 154 is the best combination of speed and power that Mayweather has ever seen, a fighter who floyd cannot hurt or match up in any way shape or form in terms of strength, a smarter and more experienced fighter than floyd has ever fought. If you beat this man it is a special acheivement (and when the hell could you ever say that about john ruiz), he's not an old man he is 34 flippin years old.

Hitman


The fact remains that you're building DLH up to make Floyd look better. If Oscar is such a threat, then pick him to win.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

I just did.

:lol:

Good. I've put my money where my mouth is on this fight and I've said from the beginning, when this fight was just speculation in the minds of fans, that Floyd would win it. If DLH wins, I'll be here and eat my crow, I won't hide.

[Valdosta]

I have no illusions. I watched the Castillejo fight. He did not look impressive at all until the 12th when he got a knockdown. The scoring margins were wider than they should have been and everyone at the time said so. I defy you to find anyone who classifies that fight as a scintillating DLH victory. It was a dull fight and DLH squeezed out an unimpressive victory on the cards.


Oscar beat the hell out of Castilliejo and at worst lost 1 round. The fact that you said he "eeked" that fight out, is really weird to me. I might possibly hate Oscar more than anyone on this forum but the truth is he beat the hell out of Castilliejo and the cards were not off at all. Nobody complained about them at the time either. The truth is Oscar has never clearly lost a fight at 154, although he sucked at 160.

[Xplosive]

Oscar is older but only by 4 years and really hasn;t been injured in a while. When I think about it Floyd has injury issues as much as ODLH and Floyd's are more likely to come into play in this fight. Oscar looked like Oscar in his last fight, no more or less. Another thing, I have never saw Oscar decisively lose at 154. I have never seen Floyd fight at that weight period.

Well your gonna see it tonight.

[The Hitman]

The fact remains that you're building DLH up to make Floyd look better. If Oscar is such a threat, then pick him to win.

to be fair, i did pick a draw

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

to be fair, i did pick a draw

You did and I apologize if I came across as a dick, but I was just incredulous that you and val continued to rate DLH as such a big threat.

I picked Floyd to win a decision from day 1. Like I said over and over at this site, DLH hadn't shown me anything in the last several years to make me think he would win this fight.

[Valdosta]

Did you watch the fight? ODLH was a big threat it's not like Floyd dominated him. Floyd won the fight but not easily. My thread was made legit by the fight not the other way around.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

Did you watch the fight? ODLH was a big threat it's not like Floyd dominated him. Floyd won the fight but not easily. My thread was made legit by the fight not the other way around.

Your thread was made legit because Oscar lost just like I thought he would since before this fight was even announced? I never said DLH was a tomato can but I never, from the beginning, thought that he had a chance to win. He didn't and he didnt win. I was right and I got paid.

Oscar not being a total bum out there does not prove that he was enough of a threat to actually win.

[sanchito]

Is it just me or is it unbearable to listen to a layperson give their opinion on the fight?

[The Hitman]

You did and I apologize if I came across as a dick, but I was just incredulous that you and val continued to rate DLH as such a big threat.

I picked Floyd to win a decision from day 1. Like I said over and over at this site, DLH hadn't shown me anything in the last several years to make me think he would win this fight.

its all good man.

i still think DLH was a huge threat and i rate the win by floyd to be pretty significant. i still think DLH is an elite fighter and would beat Margarita, Williams or any of the top 154 pounders like Spinks, Phillips or anyone besides Mosley or Floyd.

as it is Floyd barely won imo...

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

its all good man.

i still think DLH was a huge threat and i rate the win by floyd to be pretty significant. i still think DLH is an elite fighter and would beat Margarita, Williams or any of the top 154 pounders like Spinks, Phillips or anyone besides Mosley or Floyd.

as it is Floyd barely won imo...

LOL. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see DLH as elite anymore and haven't for quite a while. I'd pick Wright, Taylor, Mosley and Cotto to beat him. Maybe even Margarito. IMO he'll never beat another top fighter (just like I didn't think he'd be able to beat Floyd).

[Black Gatti]

Your thread was made legit because Oscar lost just like I thought he would since before this fight was even announced? I never said DLH was a tomato can but I never, from the beginning, thought that he had a chance to win. He didn't and he didnt win. I was right and I got paid.

Oscar not being a total bum out there does not prove that he was enough of a threat to actually win.

I picked floyd too but come on.... If Oscar had won just one more round they could have easily justified giving him the fight & noone would have complained.

[The Hitman]

LOL. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see DLH as elite anymore and haven't for quite a while. I'd pick Wright, Taylor, Mosley and Cotto to beat him. Maybe even Margarito. IMO he'll never beat another top fighter (just like I didn't think he'd be able to beat Floyd).


i agree about Winky, Taylor and Mosley

[Black Gatti]

LOL. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see DLH as elite anymore and haven't for quite a while. I'd pick Wright, Taylor, Mosley and Cotto to beat him. Maybe even Margarito. IMO he'll never beat another top fighter (just like I didn't think he'd be able to beat Floyd).

You picked Winky who's fighting his next fight @ 170 lbs & Jermain Taylor (Middle Champ) to beat DLH, wwhat the hell does that have to do w/ the point. Those guys would beat any 154 lbrs.

Mosley & DLH would be Pick 'em. Don't forget most thought DLH won their last fight, including me.

Margarito & Cotto would get the shit kicked out of the Oscar that showed up to fight Floyd!!

[Valentino]

Don't underrate Margarito and Cotto. Both of those guys are very good and they don't get tired in the later rounds. At this stage of their careers, both will defeat ODLH. Which still a very good fighter...but not a great fighter. He is simply not on top of his career.

He was not even a top 10 P4P fighter!

[Valdosta]

He was not even a top 10 P4P fighter!

Neither is Cotto or Margarito. In fact neither 1 of them has beaten someone as good as Oscar. Not even close.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

You picked Winky who's fighting his next fight @ 170 lbs & Jermain Taylor (Middle Champ) to beat DLH, wwhat the hell does that have to do w/ the point. Those guys would beat any 154 lbrs.

Mosley & DLH would be Pick 'em. Don't forget most thought DLH won their last fight, including me.

Margarito & Cotto would get the shit kicked out of the Oscar that showed up to fight Floyd!!

My point is that DLH got overrated and is still getting overrated by Floyd fanatics. I never thought DLH had a chance to win it, from day 1. Coming in close second still means you lose.

[Valdosta]

Which was never the point of my thread. My point was simple enough. There was a bunch of unknowns in this fight and thinking Floyd was an automatic win was silly. We all saw the fight and as far as I am concerned I was right. Floyd better move his ass back down to 147, he's not nearly as good at 154, he has absolutely no bussiness at that weight.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

Which was never the point of my thread. My point was simple enough. There was a bunch of unknowns in this fight and thinking Floyd was an automatic win was silly. We all saw the fight and as far as I am concerned I was right. Floyd better move his ass back down to 147, he's not nearly as good at 154, he has absolutely no bussiness at that weight.

Luckily, his debut at that weight was against DLH. :mex:

[Black Gatti]

Don't underrate Margarito and Cotto. Both of those guys are very good and they don't get tired in the later rounds. At this stage of their careers, both will defeat ODLH. Which still a very good fighter...but not a great fighter. He is simply not on top of his career.

He was not even a top 10 P4P fighter!

WTF .... Pass that blunt to me dawg!!

Margarito & Cotto have never been great. Neither of them have ever fought a fighter on the level that DLH has fought a dozen times. And DLH came within a rd of defeating PBF, so basically you are saying that Cotto & Margarito would defeat PBF, which is ridiculous!

BTW - It wouldn't matter if Margarito or Cotto don't get tired in the late rounds because they wouldn't last that long anyways.

[Black Gatti]

My point is that DLH got overrated and is still getting overrated by Floyd fanatics. I never thought DLH had a chance to win it, from day 1. Coming in close second still means you lose.

It doesnt matter if "You" thought he had a chance or not. Fact is, he had a very good chance. In a strategic fight, he came within a round of winning & we all know that he always had a punchers chance.

[Black Gatti]

Which was never the point of my thread. My point was simple enough. There was a bunch of unknowns in this fight and thinking Floyd was an automatic win was silly. We all saw the fight and as far as I am concerned I was right. Floyd better move his ass back down to 147, he's not nearly as good at 154, he has absolutely no business at that weight.

That was the intrigue of this fight.

That he was so great that he could even go up to 154 to beat a great fighter. It was the exact equivalent of when Pernell Whitaker stopped at 154 for 1 fight to defeat Vasquez.

Remember last year Floyd was talking about fighting Winky at 154?

[Mark G]

Remember last year Floyd was talking about fighting Winky at 154?


Wow, that fight would bring down the house!

[Remus]

Wow, that fight would bring down the house!

lmfao yeah crack open the fuckin champagne, put the kids to bed and put the fucker on prime time. :lol: :lol:

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

It doesnt matter if "You" thought he had a chance or not. Fact is, he had a very good chance. In a strategic fight, he came within a round of winning & we all know that he always had a punchers chance.

Anybody that climbs in the ring and has any kind of power has a punchers chance, even Garbageman vs RJJ had a punchers chance. Anybody has a chance to win, against anyone else at any time. I mean, Floyd could have slipped on a wet bit of canvas and knocked himself out. That doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

Just because YOU wanted Oscar to be a better threat (so people would bow down and nuthug Floyd) doesn't mean that the rest of us who realized what this fight was really about are going to do the same. Losing a fight, however close you may think it is is still losing.

[Black Gatti]

Anybody that climbs in the ring and has any kind of power has a punchers chance, even Garbageman vs RJJ had a punchers chance. Anybody has a chance to win, against anyone else at any time. I mean, Floyd could have slipped on a wet bit of canvas and knocked himself out. That doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

Just because YOU wanted Oscar to be a better threat (so people would bow down and nuthug Floyd) doesn't mean that the rest of us who realized what this fight was really about are going to do the same. Losing a fight, however close you may think it is is still losing.

This response is pretty weak.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

This response is pretty weak.

No, it's the truth. You and a couple of other people are Floyd nuthuggers and you keep coming in here and saying "what a threat DLH is" even after DLH lost. That's pretty weak.

[The Hitman]

no its pretty weak whenever someone brings up the "nuthugger" and "hater" bullshit facades as justification for their arguments.

[Valdosta]

Don't waste you're time. The guy thinks ODLH "eeked" out a win against Castilliejo.

[Bouffant_Spectacular]

..

[Rebel]

WTF .... Pass that blunt to me dawg!!

Margarito & Cotto have never been great. Neither of them have ever fought a fighter on the level that DLH has fought a dozen times. And DLH came within a rd of defeating PBF, so basically you are saying that Cotto & Margarito would defeat PBF, which is ridiculous!

BTW - It wouldn't matter if Margarito or Cotto don't get tired in the late rounds because they wouldn't last that long anyways.
Chinny ass Judah lasted so don't overrate PBF's fists at 140+.

[The Hitman]

Chinny ass Judah lasted so don't overrate PBF's fists at 140+.

i do wonder if he would have lasted if not for those intentional low blows

[Black Gatti]

No, it's the truth. You and a couple of other people are Floyd nuthuggers and you keep coming in here and saying "what a threat DLH is" even after DLH lost. That's pretty weak.

I don't understand where you're coming from.

More people on this site picked DLH than they did PBF. I can't speak for the others but I have never pumped up Oscar to boost PBF's win. You are just saying that because you're biased against PBF or something.

[Black Gatti]

Chinny ass Judah lasted so don't overrate PBF's fists at 140+.

huh??

How many times has Judah been stopped?

[Black Gatti]

i do wonder if he would have lasted if not for those intentional low blows

That's right, Rebel doesn't understand circumstances unless it pertains to JMM or any other Mexican fighter.

We all know that if not for those low blows & the long delay, Judah was on his way out! ... Why do you think he threw those low blows?