Who's the best wrestler in MMA? [Archive]

BJ*

04-10-2007, 03:59 PM

You refuse to acknowledge the existence of Dan Henderson huh?
Did he nail your girl or something?

:)

Seriously though, the credentials of Randleman and Kos and Couture and Hendo are similar with the edge to Hendo for competing in the Olympics...Of course Lindland won a medal...soooo...

What exactly is the question? The answer in most cases will be Henderson :) Learn to live with that.

Valdosta

04-10-2007, 04:16 PM

Henderson has a great wrestling background as well. I know someone who wrestled him before. Shit, how did I not mention Couture, didn't he make the olymnics as well?

Valdosta

04-10-2007, 04:18 PM

Saw this somewhere. Pretty fucking impressive.....

Koscheck has a strong, well-documented base in folkstyle wrestling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkstyle_wrestling), dating back to his collegiate years at Edinboro University of Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinboro_University_of_Pennsylvania), where he attended the university on an athletic scholarship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_scholarship). In 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001), Koscheck won all 42 of his wrestling matches, and went on to become the NCAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA) Division I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I) Champion in the 174 lb weight class. In the coming years, he would win many championships and receive many honors in his national collegiate wrestling career. In addition to being a four-time NCAA Division I All-American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American), Koscheck is a three-time recipient of the PSAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_Athletic_Conference) Wrestler of the Year award, and earned the Eastern Wrestling League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Wrestling_League) Achievement Award twice.

Valdosta

04-10-2007, 04:21 PM

Nope I was wrong. Couture got close but no cigar....

He moved on to collegiate power Oklahoma State, where he was a three-time All-American, finished as a NCAA runner-up twice and was part of two national championship teams. He went on to win four national Greco titles. The Olympics appeared to be a good bet. In 1988, '92 and '96, Couture went to the U.S. Olympic Trials. Three trips, zero spots. The 1996 shortfall proved devastating because he was favored to make the U.S. team.

BJ*

04-10-2007, 05:46 PM

Couture was an olympic alternate.
All were highly rated college wrestlers with Kos winning it all twice I believe and 2nd place another year. JUST in college, Kos accomplished a bit more...but Hendo and Couture and Lindland took it further with Intl comp/Olympic level honors (however they did so in Greco which isn't quite as prestigious in the US).

All are good.

Its when MMA retards think Matt Hammil (division THREE college wrestler and DEAF Olympic champ) is of this ilk that fucking kill me...

Valdosta

04-10-2007, 05:58 PM

Interesting, Mark Coleman made the olympics before as well. I noticed the same thing about Hammil's wrestling record. Cracks me up that he was division III and people act like he was division I.

Rebel

04-10-2007, 10:58 PM

Who would you all pick between Koscheck and Serra?

Valdosta

04-11-2007, 12:00 AM

Ice Black

04-11-2007, 02:25 AM

Serra had the better win but I don't care I'd pick Koscheck anyways. Serra could win to though tough fight to call. I think Koscheck has a tough style for almost anyone at 170 (exception being BJ Penn). I think BJ would match up Koscheck real well and slaughter him.

I don't think it's time to say Matt Hughes is past his prime, he's got a really good chance against both BJ and Koscheck. A loss to GSP didn't convince me Hughes is done.

Cheerz!!

Ice Black

04-11-2007, 02:28 AM

And - for the best wrestler in mma I'd go with my no.1 p4p - F. Emelianenko. The guy has also a great defence on the ground - just watch his fight against Coleman and Randleman. He was slammed and got into a kimura, but didn't give up and reversed the fight and won. He fights as a heavyweight with a welterweight movement ability.

Cheerz!!

BJ*

04-11-2007, 04:14 AM

kimura is not a typical wrestling move...
we'd almost all agree that Fedor is best fighter...but this was a question of wrestling...Randleman took him down and suplexed him like he was nothing...its the other aspects of the game that Fedor was far superior...

Ice Black

04-11-2007, 04:40 AM

Exactly. There are only very few fighters who are able to win in a situation where for others it would be an obvious defeat. In that fight with Randleman he was ready for his hand to be broken instead of giving up. And other then that - I don't see anyone capable of beating him on ground 'n' pound game.
Who knows, maybe there will be someone who can do it some day.

I wonder what Lindland can bring to the ring against Fedor when they meet on April 14th.

BJ*

04-11-2007, 06:05 AM

I see Lindland/Fedor much like Henderson/Big Nog.
Lindland may shock some people by being able to take down Fedor (I see him tying up and working on a trip of some sort)...but from there Fedor will work Kimuras, arm bars maybe reverse and GnP...the size/strength is too much for Lindland to fight it off for the duration...

Ice Black

04-11-2007, 09:39 AM

That's pretty similar to my predictions on that fight. I wonder if Fedor's brother will reach the top too, 'cos in sambo he was as great as Fedor. Maybe his loss to Crocop was too shocking, he really got koed hard there. lol, I watched the video of Fedor watching that fight and cursing in russian, calling CroCop a fag everytime he managed to land on Alexander.

Cheerz!!

Rebel

04-11-2007, 02:05 PM

Black Gatti

04-11-2007, 07:54 PM

:lol:

Severn? =)

Rebel

04-11-2007, 09:31 PM

Severn? =)
No way. Severn was a good wrestler, but he was very limited. A prime Shamrock choked in him out quickly in their first fight. :lol:

Big Bear

04-12-2007, 05:57 AM

I guess you would have to go with Matt Linland based on accomplichments from his resume. But as far as effectively using it in MMA? I would say Randy Couture. I don't believe there is anybody he has fought and not taken them down. 2 Division title holder.

O-Dogg33

04-12-2007, 09:04 AM

Kurt Angle would kill everybody! Its true! Its true!

Big Bear

04-12-2007, 09:38 AM

Kurt Angle would kill everybody! Its true! Its true!

hehe! Good one. Brock Lesnar is fighting MMA too so lets wait and see what he's all about. He reminds me of the Juggernaut! :)

O-Dogg33

04-12-2007, 11:36 AM

I read somewhere that when Lesnar was first trying to train MMA he was training with Matt Hughes at the Militech (sp?) camp. Hughes got him in a rear naked choke and Lesnar stood up and slammed himself on his back to get the little flea off! lol Didn't work he tapped supposedly.

BJ*

04-12-2007, 12:58 PM

You know, I would consider Angle to be the best pure wrestler (had he ever gone into to MMA)...unlike Hendo and Couture, Angle had success as a freestyle wrestler...of course winning Gold. Like I said, in the US, people tend to gravitate to Greco more as a niche...not to say they aren't good at freestyle...but the best of the best remain freestyle IMO.

Angle beat both Coleman and Kerr in freestyle..I always wished he would have tried MMA (when he was still young).

Big Bear

04-13-2007, 05:57 AM

O-Dogg33

04-13-2007, 07:47 AM

You guys ever heard of Kevin Jackson? He won Gold at the 92 games but finished his MMA career at 4-2. I'm trying to remember that big dudes name that PRIDE signed??? Maybe it starts with an "R"?? He won gold at the 2000 Olympics i believe beating that Russian guy that was pratically unbeatable.

Rulon Gardner I believe. He schooled Yoshida I remember. He could have been pretty good I think. But you could tell he didn't really like getting hit too much.

BJ*

04-13-2007, 08:32 AM

Rulon Gardner

meh...still Greco

Big Bear

04-13-2007, 10:00 AM

meh...still Greco

School me on the difference between the two again??? Which is which?

BJ*

04-13-2007, 01:26 PM

Greco is upper body oriented...throws and trips...no shooting for a leg is allowed. Strength and leverage is key.

Freestyle is more like regular collegiate/high school wrestling in the US. You can shoot and throw and trip etc...its just my OPINION that freestyle are better overall athletes.

And I only suggest this for American athletes...no-one typically goes into Greco seriously until they determine they may be at a dead end collegiately or in freestyle...its just not the typical path of progression...so it is sort of a niche of the overall sport.

However, I understand (i don't know for fact) that Greco is far more popular in Russia, Iran, Hungary and a few other places...

So I am not saying one is better than the other in terms of preparation for MMA...just hypothetically take a Gold medal caliber American freestyle wrestler against a Gold medal caliber American Greco wrestler and the freestyle guy probably used to kick the shit out of the Greco guy when they were in HS and College... :lol:

Big Bear

04-13-2007, 01:34 PM

Ah! That's what I was thinking. :funny:

Black Gatti

04-14-2007, 07:14 PM

No way. Severn was a good wrestler, but he was very limited. A prime Shamrock choked in him out quickly in their first fight. :lol:

what happened in the second fight? ... and what did Severn do in his other fights?

Rebel

04-15-2007, 09:43 AM

what happened in the second fight? ... and what did Severn do in his other fights?

He won the 2nd fight and proceeded to get beat every time he'd face a skilled fighter from there on out. Mark Coleman owned him at UFC 12, remember? From that day on he never really beat anyone of note. So your great Severn had about 3-4 great years during the UFC's rookie years.

Valdosta

04-15-2007, 10:54 AM

The 2nd fight was all stand up anyways.

Big Bear

04-17-2007, 10:39 AM

Severn's nickname suits him perfect though. At least until he speaks. haha!

Black Gatti

04-22-2007, 12:57 PM

He won the 2nd fight and proceeded to get beat every time he'd face a skilled fighter from there on out. Mark Coleman owned him at UFC 12, remember? From that day on he never really beat anyone of note. So your great Severn had about 3-4 great years during the UFC's rookie years.

I know u like to go to sherdog & boxrec before you really to posts. I suggest you do a search now & you'll see how good this guy was.

The question was best wrestler :

1) He was beating all these guys w/ pure wrestling.
2) He's the reason these wrestlers in MMA are cross training now. He was the prototype.
3) There would be no Mark Coleman's if not for Severn!!

Damn, give somebody props for once, instead of being overly critical of fighters. Especially the ones that deserve it.

Black Gatti

04-22-2007, 12:58 PM

Severn's nickname suits him perfect though. At least until he speaks. haha!

Yep, "The Beast" ... but he speaks like a scholar. haha

Rebel

04-22-2007, 05:29 PM

I know u like to go to sherdog & boxrec before you really to posts. I suggest you do a search now & you'll see how good this guy was.

The question was best wrestler :

1) He was beating all these guys w/ pure wrestling.
2) He's the reason these wrestlers in MMA are cross training now. He was the prototype.
3) There would be no Mark Coleman's if not for Severn!!

Damn, give somebody props for once, instead of being overly critical of fighters. Especially the ones that deserve it.
Read the topic of this thread. Is Severn the current best wrestler in MMA or the best ever in MMA? A resounding NO. Now carry on.

Black Gatti

04-22-2007, 07:31 PM

Read the topic of this thread. Is Severn the current best wrestler in MMA or the best ever in MMA? A resounding NO. Now carry on.

You are correct, that is the thread topic ... but I was responding to your criticism of Dan Severn.